Buying an M7. Advice?

[elshaneo]

1750 USD for a Black Chrome M7, that's a bargain price indeed !!!

Let us know when you finally get it in hand, with also a snapshot of it 😉

As for price, I bought a black M7 (with black dot!) for $1750, a very good deal I think.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

This is one of those things where there are two different mind-sets, and neither is going to convince the other, regardless of how pig-headed and stupid the other may seem to be to anyone who can think clearly.

Ho ho ho!

Seriously, Roger, I'm not arguing that one camera ought to be considered "better" than the other...like I said, I still haven't even used the M7, and use the M2 regularly, so I understand the appeal of an all-manual camera.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Ho ho ho!

Seriously, Roger, I'm not arguing that one camera ought to be considered "better" than the other....

Nor I. Just that the 'battery -- no battery' divide often seems unbridgeable, with each side completely failing to understand that there are arguments on both sides.

Have fun with it! (I'm sure you will).

Cheers,

R.

 

[hlockwood]

I won't use AE because I waste more time outsmarting the AE than it would take to just take a manual reading. I dislike exposure compensation because it's too easy to leave it on accidentally - either to over or underexpose. At least with a DSLR you can see right away if you've over or underexposed. The fundamental flaw of any AE system ,no matter how sophisticated is that it's based on taking a reflected light reading. Cameras are not smart enough to know if you're photographing something that's black or white, so black or white objects are over and underexposed if you use AE without compensation. But if you use exposure compensation you have to remember to set it back to zero after you shoot any subjects that are darker or lighter than "average".... So AE is just a nuisance for me. I do perfectly well when I meter manually... I even meter manually with the DSLR's - with the spot meter. This is why I never got an M7, not after the CLE and Hexar, both of which were a pain to use on manual exposure. Also why the Ikon does not appeal. (I like my M6 bodies just fine)

You're entitled to your preferences for a manual camera, but getting the right exposure with AP-AE is not rocket science. I never use exposure compensation on my M7. If a scene doesn't appear to approximate "average" reflectivity, i.e., 18%, I take a reading nearby of something that does, then set the shutter accordingly. I can say honestly that I almost never get a badly exposed frame with the M7. My lack of skills as a photographer, unfortunately, run deeper than getting the exposure right.

Harry

 

[wjlapier]

As for price, I bought a black M7 (with black dot!) for $1750, a very good deal I think.

Excellent price. Congrats on a fine camera.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . getting the right exposure with AP-AE is not rocket science. I never use exposure compensation on my M7. If a scene doesn't appear to approximate "average" reflectivity, i.e., 18%, I take a reading nearby of something that does, then set the shutter accordingly.

Harry

Dear Harry,

Very true, but I just find it easier to meter that 'average' subject (which ISN'T 18%, by the way, but 12-14%) than to use the AE lock. Why? No reason: habit, probably. But if it works, that's all I ask.

For notes on 18% grey, see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps 18 per cent.html

Cheers,

R.

 

[JohnTF]

I bought the Chrome M7-- dealer was surprised when I requested chrome, just think it is more durable on a camera I bought to use, he was thinking of the +$100 in resale or so.

I did arrive in Mexico with a dead battery, should have learned this lesson long time ago, had it happen with a Mamiya 1000s in Paris-- am guessing after a few times we would all learn to carry spares, especially when your battery is a bit more rare.

With the M7, I would carry two, pants and suspenders. ;-)

I could not find the appropriate battery, checked watch shops and all.

I did hear later there was a substitution using four watch batteries, don't remember the recommendation.

But I do now remember to lock the shutter release off, and carry a spare.

Almost any camera bag I pick up has some spare batteries, I suppose this makes the vendors happy.

I do wish Leica had chosen a more common battery, but I like the camera, and adjusting to equipment is part of what we do.

Regards, John

 

[Roger Hicks]

Actually I've just realized that I don't meter an 'average' subject with AE (which I use on the M8/M8.2). If the exposure doesn't look right, I swing the camera towards something darker or lighter until it does. Then I half-depress the shutter release...

So in a sense I suppose I'm guessing after all.

Cheers,

R.

 

[JohnTF]

Dear Harry,

Very true, but I just find it easier to meter that 'average' subject (which ISN'T 18%, by the way, but 12-14%) than to use the AE lock. Why? No reason: habit, probably. But if it works, that's all I ask.

For notes on 18% grey, see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps 18 per cent.html

Cheers,

R.

Roger, right after you reorganize Neobrom in Brno to make wonderful paper again, would you please have camera bags made with a 12-14% gray option? Or at least some large microfiber cloths, OK cargo pants or T shirts, they could have a snappy alliterative phrase of some sort, will leave that up to you?

Just was thinking of useful projects to occupy your time for you. ;-)

As you talk to the bag folks, would think this would be an easier place to start for you as I am sure you know enough reps. ;-)

Regards, John

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Actually I've just realized that I don't meter an 'average' subject with AE (which I use on the M8/M8.2). If the exposure doesn't look right, I swing the camera towards something darker or lighter until it does. Then I half-depress the shutter release...

So in a sense I suppose I'm guessing after all.

Cheers,

R.

Yes, that is precisely what I do, too, with my AE SLR's.

 

[mfunnell]

...I just find it easier to meter that 'average' subject (which ISN'T 18%, by the way, but 12-14%) [...] For notes on 18% grey, see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps 18 per cent.html

I find that comment about 18% quite disturbing. I've been searching high and low for an 18% neutral grey cat, so I can take a perfect internet photograph 🙄

Are you telling me I may have passed up a "correct" specimen? And can you be a bit more precise? I'd like to know whether I'm after a cat that's 12%, 13% or 14% - or do I need three cats?

...Mike

 

[Roger Hicks]

I find that comment about 18% quite disturbing. I've been searching high and low for an 18% neutral grey cat, so I can take a perfect internet photograph 🙄

Are you telling me I may have passed up a "correct" specimen? And can you be a bit more precise? I'd like to know whether I'm after a cat that's 12%, 13% or 14% - or do I need three cats?

...Mike

Dear Mike,

At least 9 cats: 12, 14 and 18 per cent (the latter for some spot meters, though why anyone would use a spot meter on a grey card is beyond me). Then you need each cat in neutral, warm-tone and cool-tone.

Of course, the thing about 'average' reflectance is that it's not very critical anyway. An awful lot of people look for a precision in photography which does not exist and cannot exist.

Cheers,

R.

 

[35mmdelux]

Umm, not quite. In a pinch, you can keep shooting without battery at 1/60 and 1/125 which is actually not as restricting as one may think...

Before I learnt to slow/speed up the camera I shot at 1/60 and 1/125 for about 20 years and produced a nice body of work wit it (slow learner).

The M7 has AE LOCK if needed. The exp comp works like a charm. I add +2/3 to negs and shoot null wit transparency.

 

[maddoc]

Why is your way of manual reading faster ? In a backlight situation and using the M7 you lock the shutter-speed by half pressing the shutter-button, open the aperture 2 stops and shoot ... no rocket science. The AE of the M7 outsmarts you in most of the situations. 😉

I won't use AE because I waste more time outsmarting the AE than it would take to just take a manual reading. I dislike exposure compensation because it's too easy to leave it on accidentally - either to over or underexpose. At least with a DSLR you can see right away if you've over or underexposed. The fundamental flaw of any AE system ,no matter how sophisticated is that it's based on taking a reflected light reading. Cameras are not smart enough to know if you're photographing something that's black or white, so black or white objects are over and underexposed if you use AE without compensation. But if you use exposure compensation you have to remember to set it back to zero after you shoot any subjects that are darker or lighter than "average".... So AE is just a nuisance for me. I do perfectly well when I meter manually... I even meter manually with the DSLR's - with the spot meter. This is why I never got an M7, not after the CLE and Hexar, both of which were a pain to use on manual exposure. Also why the Ikon does not appeal. (I like my M6 bodies just fine)

 

[Pablito]

Why is your way of manual reading faster ? In a backlight situation and using the M7 you lock the shutter-speed by half pressing the shutter-button, open the aperture 2 stops and shoot ... no rocket science. The AE of the M7 outsmarts you in most of the situations. 😉

It's just faster for me, maddoc. It's the way I like to work. When I use any sort of AE I am not as aware of the shutter speed and aperture. When I use manual, I ALWAYS know what the shutter speed and aperture are.

With your method, you have to open up two stops. But then what if that gives you too little depth of field? Of course you can deal with that, but for me it's not my intuitive way of working. Also, as soon as you release the shutter button, you loose whatever value you locked in. If you take many photos of the same scene it's just more direct to lock in your exposure by just setting it - manually.

To each his own. Perhaps I'm just an eccentric. I have no complaints about my DSLR's being battery dependent but I don't like my Leicas that way. OTOH, the DSLR's have matrix metering I just use them on manual. The world is one big contradiction.

 

[mojobebop]

batteries

batteries

my advice is be aware that there are some used
older models that have battery drainage issues.

i've had one since march and have gone through
3 sets of batteries. am on my 4th.

in comparrison to an m6 i purchased a year and a half ago,
only went through one set. (and these were the batteries
that came with the camera).

 

[35mmdelux]

my advice is be aware that there are some used
older models that have battery drainage issues.

i've had one since march and have gone through
3 sets of batteries. am on my 4th.

in comparrison to an m6 i purchased a year and a half ago,
only went through one set. (and these were the batteries
that came with the camera).

My black paint MP (circa 2003) had battery drainage problem using 3 sets in 1 week. Fortunately repaired under warranty or would have cost ~$300. Now in the last 2-1/2 years running with the same set of batteries.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Well, got my M7 today from Chris--he's a standup guy, I gave him a big thumbs-up in the feedback thread. Unfortunately it's pouring and I have an upset stomach, so no snap-happy wanderings today, but wow, what a lovely machine. The film advance feel is not as nice as the M2's, but the .72 MP-style finder is spectacular. The shutter is actually quieter than my M2. And I actually kind of like the exposure compensation method--it's neat how they turned the old dial into something useful, and I'm not getting blinking problems. (It's the old DX reader, not the optical.)

Future upgrades: the leatherette is peeling a bit and I don't really dig the feel, so I will probably replace it someday with vulcanite or griptac. It seems as though the leatherette would be very easy to get off cleanly, is that right? And I would love to replace the advance lever with the MP type--I am aware that it's not swappable, that you need a custom part.

Oh yeah, and I like the black dot! Not as stealthy as Akiva's, but nice.

Thanks for the advice, guys--this is shaping up to be a keeper.

 

[bob338]

Well, got my M7 today from Chris--he's a standup guy, I gave him a big thumbs-up in the feedback thread. Unfortunately it's pouring and I have an upset stomach, so no snap-happy wanderings today, but wow, what a lovely machine. The film advance feel is not as nice as the M2's, but the .72 MP-style finder is spectacular. The shutter is actually quieter than my M2. And I actually kind of like the exposure compensation method--it's neat how they turned the old dial into something useful, and I'm not getting blinking problems. (It's the old DX reader, not the optical.)

Future upgrades: the leatherette is peeling a bit and I don't really dig the feel, so I will probably replace it someday with vulcanite or griptac. It seems as though the leatherette would be very easy to get off cleanly, is that right? And I would love to replace the advance lever with the MP type--I am aware that it's not swappable, that you need a custom part.

Oh yeah, and I like the black dot! Not as stealthy as Akiva's, but nice.

Thanks for the advice, guys--this is shaping up to be a keeper.

err, i think the advance lever is an off the shelf item that leica can do pretty quickly.
if you feel like being without your camera for 6-8 weeks, leica will now replace the DX reader for FREE! the only downside is that it has to go solms and takes time...mine is there now for a new DX, MP finder and to have the MP levers put on it.

bob

ps--griptac is awesome.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

err, i think the advance lever is an off the shelf item that leica can do pretty quickly.
if you feel like being without your camera for 6-8 weeks, leica will now replace the DX reader for FREE! the only downside is that it has to go solms and takes time...mine is there now for a new DX, MP finder and to have the MP levers put on it.

bob

ps--griptac is awesome.

As long as I'm not in blinky hell, I'm not bothered by the film not dropping out...it actually fely kinda good to tuck it in there and feel a bit of resistance. I'm accustomed to loading an M2 after all. And no I don't feel like being without it for 6-8 weeks!

Apparently you can't swap in any old black chrome lever, but I'm sure you're right that it'd be a cinch for Leica to do. I'm mulling over finding the part and doing it myself.

Griptac is indeed miraculous...