Buying my first Bessa and Skopar 21mm

[FredtheLlama]

Hi Folks,

After a surprise bonus from my work, I'm on the hunt for my first Bessa.

I think I've got my mind set on the 21mm Skopar, but I haven't decided on what Bessa to get.

As much as I want an R4A, I can't justify the price. But thinking that I'll need an external viewfinder anyway, and with the crazy DOF the 21mm gets, I should be fine the the L, right?

I can always upgrade to an R4A in the future I guess.

Can the LTM version take filters?

 

[Godfrey]

I'm not too familiar with the Bessa line, but I'd look for an M-mount Bessa rather than an LTM mount body. There are far more M-mount lenses than LTM lenses available now, and LTM lenses can be used on M-mount bodies, not the other way around.

Far as I can tell, the filter thread on the LTM Skopar 21 is identical to the filter thread on the M-mount Skopar 21. It's a very nice lens, as are all the modern Color-Skopars really.

G

 

[Tom A]

The Bessa L is a good fit with the 21f4 - but as you said - you need the external finder. Costwise it would be getting close to what a used Bessa R4 would be. The R4A is now out of production - and I still think the R4M is a better deal as there is less chance of having the wide view of the 21 picking up sky or foreground and skew the exposure.
You can use 39mm filters on the 21f4 - but beware that if you put a filter with a thick rim (Leica/B&W etc) and then attach the hood, you can get vignetting.

 

[gb hill]

The 21/4 skopar in LTM comes with the 21 finder if bought at Camera Quest. If I colud afford to I'd get a Bessa 4m & get the M mount 21(pancake) version.

 

[gb hill]

I have a Bessa L & use the LTM 25/4 with it. Good combo.

 

[FredtheLlama]

Thanks for the input guys.

I think whats playing on my mind is that do I really need an R4A with it's rangefinder to focus a 21mm lens? When I could save myself £300 and buy an L for £100 or so.

Funnily enough, I've just found an R4A for sale in the UK for a very good price. It won't stay around for long so I need to make up my mind!

 

[Doug]

The R4 is unique in having the built-in 21mm finder, with parallax correction, so is a perfect match for 21mm and other wide lenses. If it's financially feasible, this would be a great combination.

 

[Dez]

If the only lens you are ever going to use is the 21mm, go ahead and buy a Bessa L, or an R4A. But probably the best feature of the Bessas is their excellent viewfinder, so I have always considered the Bessa L a bit pointless.

The 21 is very much a specialty lens, and I think that, unless super-wideangle photography is your main or only interest, you will want a camera with more flexibility. I would buy something like a Bessa 3A, with its beautiful 1:1 viewfinder, and just accept the fact that you will be using an accessory finder for the 21. The screwmount CV 21 f4 is an amazing bargain, and as mentioned above, comes with a really good accessory finder. I have never used one of the R4 cameras, but I have heard that it is a struggle to see the entire 21mm frame through the VF, and maybe the auxiliary finder might get used on one of them as well. Possibly people who have shot this combination with and without glasses can weigh in with their experience.

R2A's with framelines for 35, 50, and 90mm lenses, and R3A's with framelines for 40, 50, and 90mm lenses are not hard to find in good condition used. I found a really excellent R3A which looked like new old stock in the RFF Classifieds for $250, and it has been working perfectly ever since I bought it. The R4 cameras are really specialty items, and are impractical for lenses 50mm and longer. I'd be very doubtful about focusing a fast 50, and there are no framelines for longer focal lengths.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[siracusa]

I'm speak with no expertise on gear, though I own an R2. My thoughts are that as has been suggested, if you're only ever going to use a 21mm lens, the L is fine.
However, I imagine that by shopping around you'd surely be able to pick up an R for not that much more that the L in the grand scheme of things, and that would give you more versatility (though still being l39 mount).
I can't speak to the R4A or R4M, but I couldn't be happier with my R2 and imagine the R4 must be even better.

 

[newspaperguy]

I'm on my second L (Bought one, sold it - bought another.)

Love that little sucker.

 

[FredtheLlama]

If the only lens you are ever going to use is the 21mm, go ahead and buy a Bessa L, or an R4A. But probably the best feature of the Bessas is their excellent viewfinder, so I have always considered the Bessa L a bit pointless.

The 21 is very much a specialty lens, and I think that, unless super-wideangle photography is your main or only interest, you will want a camera with more flexibility. I would buy something like a Bessa 3A, with its beautiful 1:1 viewfinder, and just accept the fact that you will be using an accessory finder for the 21. The screwmount CV 21 f4 is an amazing bargain, and as mentioned above, comes with a really good accessory finder. I have never used one of the R4 cameras, but I have heard that it is a struggle to see the entire 21mm frame through the VF, and maybe the auxiliary finder might get used on one of them as well. Possibly people who have shot this combination with and without glasses can weigh in with their experience.

R2A's with framelines for 35, 50, and 90mm lenses, and R3A's with framelines for 40, 50, and 90mm lenses are not hard to find in good condition used. I found a really excellent R3A which looked like new old stock in the RFF Classifieds for $250, and it has been working perfectly ever since I bought it. The R4 cameras are really specialty items, and are impractical for lenses 50mm and longer. I'd be very doubtful about focusing a fast 50, and there are no framelines for longer focal lengths.

Cheers,
Dez

Hi Dez,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think you've confirmed my reservations about the R4A.

I'll keep my eye out for a LTM 21mm and finder and pick up a cheap L to keep it on. I guess if I don't like it I can always upgrade to an R2 or something else later down the line.

 

[gb hill]

I'm speak with no expertise on gear, though I own an R2. My thoughts are that as has been suggested, if you're only ever going to use a 21mm lens, the L is fine.
However, I imagine that by shopping around you'd surely be able to pick up an R for not that much more that the L in the grand scheme of things, and that would give you more versatility (though still being l39 mount).
I can't speak to the R4A or R4M, but I couldn't be happier with my R2 and imagine the R4 must be even better.

I have both an R & an L. The R is great for my 35 skopar & 50mm lenses but for my 25/4, it sits better on the L. The light meter located on the outside of the camera is a plus IMO when using wides. The late Al Kaplan loved his L & 15mm.

 

[FredtheLlama]

What are people's thoughts on the Bessa T?

It's M mount, which opens up my lens compatibility, and I can just use an adapter if I get a LTM version of the 21mm skopar.

It's also compatible with the trigger winder, and it's got a big fat 1.5x rangefinder. They seem a bit undesirable I think, with prices being only a little more then L's and still half the price of any A/M series.

Does anyone have experience with one?

 

[kshapero]

T or L with the CV 21 is a hit. Do it.

 

[Scrambler]

What are people's thoughts on the Bessa T? It's M mount, which opens up my lens compatibility, and I can just use an adapter if I get a LTM version of the 21mm skopar. It's also compatible with the trigger winder, and it's got a big fat 1.5x rangefinder. They seem a bit undesirable I think, with prices being only a little more then L's and still half the price of any A/M series. Does anyone have experience with one?

They are almost a Leica III without the 50mm finder. Some like them, others not. I haven't used one but have used Leica separate RF and VF cameras. They are slightly slower in use and you are forced to have an accessory finder for every lens length. The RF will add nothing of worth to your 21mm. But as you say it keeps your options open. I think there are metering differences as well. The L and R share a common central vertical stripe sensitivity pattern. I think the T started the later offset centre/low angle sensitivity pattern.

 

[haempe]

After the RF system of my Bessa R passed away (dropped one time too often) I found it's the ideal snapshot camera with the 25/4 skopar.
I taped the RF- and the frameline illuminator- windows and use the whole finder for framing.
Nearly perfect. 🙂

 

[FredtheLlama]

They are almost a Leica III without the 50mm finder. Some like them, others not. I haven't used one but have used Leica separate RF and VF cameras. They are slightly slower in use and you are forced to have an accessory finder for every lens length. The RF will add nothing of worth to your 21mm. But as you say it keeps your options open. I think there are metering differences as well. The L and R share a common central vertical stripe sensitivity pattern. I think the T started the later offset centre/low angle sensitivity pattern.

Cheers. Like you say, the rangefinder isn't needed for the 21mm, but will be useful if I get a longer lens.

I didn't know that about the metering. Is this a good or bad thing?

T or L with the CV 21 is a hit. Do it.

Looks like I will 😛

I just need to find one for sale in the UK now. Why are all the cheap ones always in the States?

 

[gb hill]

The T, according to Camera Quest has the same metering as the L & R. One thing you better consider before buying the Bessa T is this. You will have to focus & compose through two seporate windows, like the old Leica & FSU camera's. Personally I'd get the L (scale focus with wides is easy)& save monie's for a M2 or whatever later on down the road.

 

[FredtheLlama]

The T, according to Camera Quest has the same metering as the L & R. One thing you better consider before buying the Bessa T is this. You will have to focus & compose through two seporate windows, like the old Leica & FSU camera's. Personally I'd get the L (scale focus with wides is easy)& save monie's for a M2 or whatever later on down the road.

Cheers,

Could I not just scale focus with the T and ignore the rangefinder?

 

[Doug]

Cheers,

Could I not just scale focus with the T and ignore the rangefinder?

You certainly could, and when you need it, it's there. I think the T is a step up from the L. I have both...

Doug