BW film developing - drying marks

[berci]

Hi Everyone out there,

I develop my own bw pictures, in my small tank kitchen sink type photo lab, everything is fine apart from the occasional drying marks on the negative. I even use a photo flo like thing (Jessops wetting agent) but that does not help either.

The most annoying thing is that sometimes it's ok, sometimes not.

Any idea?

Many thanks and happy shooting,

Berci

 

[denishr]

I do my own B&W, and I usually don't have problems with drying marks. I use Kodak photo-flo, but also gently wipe the negs prior to drying, using fingers only.
You might try adding some alcohol to the final photo-flo bath. I've heard that also helps.
I think people recommend about 30% of alcohol in the mix - don't remember exactly....

Denis

 

[pshinkaw]

Try and do a final rinse in distilled water, just a simple pass-thru. Then dilute your wetting agent in distilled water. Your tap water probably has a high solids content.

-Paul

 

[Krasnaya_Zvezda]

I use Kodak Photo-Flo, I let the negs drip-dry, I don't touch them with anything. Have never had any drying marks (yet). My guess with the sometimes-ok-sometimes-not problem is there must be a variable somewhere, maybe the strength of the mixture of the jessops (if you mix it ala photo-flo, I have never tried it so I don't know if it's the same), or do conditions vary where you hang the negs to dry? Just some simple ideas, which you've probably already considered.

 

[taffer]

I use a final bath in the dilution of wetting agent (Agfa Agepon), then squeegee the negs. I used the recommended quantity of one cap of wetting agent in 1 l of tap water and when saw some drying marks replaced the wetting agent dilution.

You can also try with distilled one but my tap water has a high solid content and worked fine though.

 

[jlw]

If they're whitish, irregularly shaped streaks, then yes, they're probably from minerals dissolved in the water. The annoying thing about these is that they're almost impossible to remove!... film cleaner etc. will not get them out.

Removing all excess water with a squeegee or fingers helps somewhat, but sometimes I still got drying marks and sometimes I'd scratch the film.

What solved the problem for me was alcohol. Once I was plastered, the marks didn't bother me at all. No, seriously... as denishr posted above, adding some isopropyl alcohol to the final wetting-agent rinse will solve the problem.

BUT... 30% is 'way too much! Try about 1% of your water volume -- i.e., if you mix up 500ml of wetting agent/water mixture for your final rinse, add about 5 ml of isopropyl alcohol to it. If that doesn't get rid of the marks, try a little more -- but you want to use the least amount possible.

The reason I say the least amount possible is that I have no idea of the possible archival effects of using isopropyl alcohol in the final rinse -- so I figure that the less you use, the safer you are.

Before I started doing this, I almost always had mineral marks on my films. But ever since, they've been sparkling clean. It's worth a try...

 

[thmk]

I once used Calbe F905 Plus but had severe drying marks even with a higher dilution as recommended (normal water used). Since then I only use a last bath in distilled water, nothing else. This works fine but not really 100%. Sometimes there are still some slight marks. In scans from the negative they are to be seen a bit. I do not know if they are visible enlarging to paper.
Maybe I should also give the distilled water plus wetting agent a try.

 

[Roman]

I also started out with using wetting agents, but quit doing so a few years ago - what I got wasn't drying marks from the water (I use distilled), but chemical marks from the wetting agent... Usually the dilutions recommended on the packages are much too high, if you absolutely must use a wetting agent, use at most something like 2 to 3 drops per liter of water.
I personally only use distilled water for the final rinse, with nothing else added; to minimize the risk of having dust baked into the wet emulsion (I don't let a squeegee closer than 1 km to my negs 😉 ), I give them a few spins in a salad spinner (film still on the real, use a piece of thread or a wooden stick to keep the film reel perpendicular to the axis od spinning and put a second empty reel on the other end, as a counterweight; crazy as this may sound, it works: after a minute of spinning, the film comes out almost dry to the touch; this idea was popularized on various German photo lab forums and online-mags a few years ago...).

Roman

 

[g0tr00t]

Ok, here I go. I use Photo-flo for a wash. BUT, for my final rinse, I do this.

I put 1 drop of dishwashing liquid in my canister and fill it with water. I remove all the suds and drop my film on the rolls in there as a the final, final wash. I swish for 30 seconds, remove, shake the rolls, remove neg's then squeege with my fingers. 30 rolls going and NO marks!

I learned this trick from an old pro who has been developing since the 50's....

 

[digitalox]

Ha ha ask a simple question and you get a gazillion different answers. I've not seen drying marks on my negs for quite some time now, here's my .02

1) after the rinse, I add a few drops of kodak photo-flo into the tank. I put the drops into a very small container and run water into this and let it overflow into the tank, so it gets all the photo-flo mixed up real good. Sometimes I use distilled, sometimes not, haven't noticed a difference either way.

2) Swirl solution around ~5 secs.

3) Let stand ~25 secs.

4) Drain, Take reel out. Shake really hard, in a whipping motion towards the tub which ejects much of the water.

(Be careful if you are using MF - it tends to pop out of the reel - not that I would know 🙂. Careful on this part.)

5) Take neg out. Cut off excess, especially from the top (you don't need any extra moisture dripping down). I have a very nice, smooth squeegee just for negs that I got at the photo store. With the negs hanging I give them one quick squeegee from top to bottom.

Now the neg is practically dry from the naked eye. Maybe a thin surface of dampness but no excess water. I still leave them hanging overnight just to be safe. Good luck.

 

[aizan]

friends in other states have used their brita pitcher to get water for the final bath. that and some photo-flo should be enough. i'm lucky, i can get away with only tap water and photo-flo. =)

 

[Stu :)]

Lucky for me I live in the world's top city (over 1 million in population) for water purity.

Here's my $0.02:
For 35mm and 120 after fixing the film, I give the film three tank-fill quick washes.
I wash the film hypo-clearing agent for four minutes.
Wash the film for 15 minutes (longer if I used Hypam).
Drain tank, place two drops of Agfa wetting agent per 35mm film or three drops per 120 down the middle of the spiral axial, fill gently with water to cover the top most spiral. But here's the important bit.
DON'T MAKE THE SOLUTION GO SOAPY

Spin the spirals slowly to mix up the solution. Let it stand for one minute.
Change the solution to another clean container (but not your water jug, developer, stop or fix mixing jugs) and soak your film squeegee in this.
Remove film from spiral, hold the film at arm's length and pour the wetting agent solution down the strip of film. If you're not 6 foot 2 like I am, cut the film in half.

End of part one...

Stu 🙂

 

[Stu :)]

...part two...

Wash and dry your hands. If your hands get damp or wet during the process below, dry them again.
Squeegee the film twice opposite ways, holding the squeegee at a 45-60º angle. If there is any more drops of water on film, one more swipe with the squeegee should do it.
Hang the film up and dry the film. I use a squirrel cage fan (search photo.net) film dryer now.
Wash your squeegee and dry well and put it back in it's box.
Go make coffee and fire up the enlarger and developing trays.

Squeegee Rules.
Have a different squeegee for each size of film you use- i.e. one for 35mm and one for 120. NEVER squeegee 4x5, a super clean synthetic sponge works better.
Get a multi-bladed squeegees are best. Looking the profile they have a W layout of rubber blades.
Keep a close on eye on the condition of your rubber blades, soon as they start to break down or cut, throw it in the rubbish. At my current rate I go through 2-3 35mm squeegees a year.
Keep the plastic box that in comes to store the squeegee when not in use. Rinse the squeegee in running water and soak the squeegee in wetting agent. When finished, wash and throughly dry the squeegee before returning to it's clean box.

A cared squeegee is a good friend, abuse it and it will turn into a monster one day and ruin your lovely exposures without warning.

Stu 🙂

PS. I don't think I've ever used the word Squeegee so many times before!

 

[Honu-Hugger]

Try and do a final rinse in distilled water, just a simple pass-thru. Then dilute your wetting agent in distilled water. Your tap water probably has a high solids content.

-Paul

I do the same as Paul with no problems (I use Kodak Photo-Flo, never had the occasion to try anything else). I probably overkill it a little but I use distilled water for every chemical process, using tap water only for the wash. Almost everyone I know locally uses wipes on their film -- I've never done it out of fear of scratching the negative, but again I'm probably being too cautious. I guess if I ever had a spotting problem I'd try wiping. I bet distilled water will solve your problem.

Good luck!

D2

P. S. Roman, I love the salad spinner idea! I built a dryer from an article in an old copy of Shutterbug -- it's finished but I've never bothered to try it😱 I guess the building part was more fun???

 

[Socke]

I use tap water and a Jobo Cascade to wash and then bath the film in Amaloco H 10 for two minutes. Then I hang my dripping film in the shower to dry.
But I think room temperature and humidity play a role in this process. I turn the shower on to settle the dust and so it takes around four hours for the film to dry. Usualy I leave it hanging over night.
I once had some stains from to much wetting agent, 2-5 ml means 5 ml in hard and 2 in soft water, we have soft water 🙂

 

[Doug]

I'm with Stu on squeegee care! I use a hardening fixer, and a Photo-Flo soak after the wash. I run the shower over the shower stall walls to rinse out any debris... I then hang the roll from the shower-stall crossbar I made, and soak the squeegee in the Photo-Flo soln as I do so and hang the weight on the bottom of the strip. Then I pour the solution down the strip as a final rinse to get rid of any dirt, lint or cat hair, and run the squeegee once down the strip from top to bottom. Close the shower door and let it dry undisturbed. Wash & dry the sqeegee and put it away.

 

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, and distilled water for mixing the developer, and for the Photo-Flo solution!

 

[oftheherd]

OK, first of all, I haven't developed my own roll film in probably 20 or more years. I guess I was just lucky. I don't remember having a problem with deposits, and rarely with water spots. Some of the military craft shops had that type of dryer that used forced heated air. I think that helped run water off to prevent water spots. I also bought a spinner from Spiratone that worked well to force water off and dry.

I never even heard of a salad spinner. I will have to look for one and see how it might be modified. Anyone have a photo of one?

As to water spots, Ilford, if they still have the same emullsions, coult not be water spotted. Any spots that started to form soon disappeared into the emulsion. It was an amazing thing to watch. You just could not get a water spot. Don't know if Ilford is the same or not.

 

[Roman]

I never even heard of a salad spinner. I will have to look for one and see how it might be modified. Anyone have a photo of one?

http://fantes.com/salad.htm#spinner
http://shopping.msn.com/marketplace.aspx?pmpType=1&pcId=9457&catId=1786

I'd go to a kitchen hardware store with my film reels, though, to see if they fit if placed vertically inside the spinner...

Roman

 

[jlw]

If you can't find a salad spinner, another water-removal method that I heard from a lab tech and actually tried... successfully... was this:

-- Remove the film from the reel and grasp one end firmly. Now crack it, like Indiana Jones cracking his bullwhip. Do it hard enough that you hear a definite pop. You'll find that this removes almost all the surface water from the film, leaving only a few very tiny droplets. Now you can hang it up to let the emulsion dry.

Downsides: Water goes all over wherever you're doing this trick; if the film flies out of your hand or hits something, you'll very likely scratch it; the end you're holding still retains some water, so hang it with that end down.

But it is kinda fun...