BW film developing - drying marks

[Tom A]

A friend who knows just about everything there is to know about film processing (used to run a large movie production lab) put me on to the wetting agent that they used.
It is Kodak Stabilizing Additive, Cat# 1847722. Ok, biggest problem is diluting it. he gave me a quart of it - enough to do 6000 litters of stock! To mix up 1000 ml - you take 0,17 ml and 1000 ml of water! I use 15 ml of this per 1500 ml of water for a final rinse. Film dries fast, water literally flows of the film in seconds. No residue on the reels either. That quart should last me long, long time.

 

[KenD]

After a lengthy hiatus, with an intervening move to a house with well water, I was plagued with watermarks, and what seemed to be mineral bits right in the emulsion. I am now using filtered water (Brita type) for mixing developer and fixer, for water "stop", and initial rinse. The main washing is with tap water, then a final rinse in filtered water. No surfactant (Photo-Flo). Wipe the film with cellulose sponges, hang to dry.

I had feared the dreaded scratches from using sponges, but after reading David Vestal's recommendation for sponges I tried it - and stayed with it.

I am getting virtually no water marks or other mineral deposits.

KenD

 

[CCCPcamera]

Edmonton has quite hard water, and I've never had a problem. I rinse film in cool tap water, pour out the water, fill tank with photoflow (diluted as per the bottle directions), let sit a couple minutes, hang film from a hook in the ceiling, then wipe with sponge tongs soaked in photoflow solution.

The tongs I use I got from my dad. They're probably 45 years old. I've tried squeegeeing and it was awful. Never had a problem with drying marks or dust or scratches with the foam tongs and photoflow.

 

[michaelwj]

One of the tips I have read on the Roger and Frances pages, is to dry the strips of film in diagonal, so that the water goes onto one of the edges and flows away faster. It might not remove the problem but it should help.

I used to have horrible drying marks all the time. I now do the Roger and Frances method, no solutions, no squeegee, no distilled water, NO drying marks. Perfect every time.

Michael

 

[Requin]

Drying marks

Drying marks

I use a wetting agent, diluted 1+400 or 1+700, let the film soak for 2 minutes and put the film reels in a salad spinner, rotate, hang up the films in a room which noboy enters for at least 30 minutes. Result: no drying marks. I NEVER touch the wet film with anything.

Just my 2 cents

requin

 

[V-12]

As a Press photographer in a rush we often used methylated spirit for the final rinse, which caused almost instant film drying and surprisingly no drying marks. It was advisable to wash our films again afterwards though, and I wouldn't recommend it.

Apart from contaminants in the water too much wetting agent is often the cause. It encourages bubbles and uneven drying and the concentration of wetting agent becomes greater as the water evaporates, hence drying marks often being at the last part to dry, the bottom end of the film. Manufacturer dilutions are far too generous. I have a bottle of Fotospeed Rinse Aid and in say one litre of water I just dip my thermometer into the Rinse Aid bottle, get a big drop on the tip, and then swish it around in the rinse water, that is enough, not 5mls per litre as recommended. You only want to break the surface tension of the rinse water with wetting agent, not use it like a detergent.

Steve

 

[mike rosenlof]

+1 on the wetting agent. I keep photo-flow in a dropper bottle that makes very small drops. two or three of them max into one liter of wash water.

 

[Bob Michaels]

...... and put the film reels in a salad spinner .....

Someone mentioned the salad spinner idea here a few years ago. Not having one, I tried just rapidly rotating my arm while holding out a reel at extended arms length. I can say I learned something useful after 25+ years of developing film at home. It really does work.

BTW, I use one drop of PhotoFlo for each roll of film. That seems to be the best dilution for me. And, it involves no measurement.

 

[Ljós]

Someone mentioned the salad spinner idea here a few years ago. Not having one, I tried just rapidly rotating my arm while holding out a reel at extended arms length. I can say I learned something useful after 25+ years of developing film at home. It really does work.

BTW, I use one drop of PhotoFlo for each roll of film. That seems to be the best dilution for me. And, it involves no measurement.

The mighty salad-spinner-method. Yeah, I tried it, it is something that often is recommended as a proven trick in German fora. And it does work, to an extent, in my opinion. I modified a cheap, new salad spinner and dried my films for a period of half a year or so. At that point, letting the films dry in the steamed up shower was not an option. The results of spin-drying and then hanging them to dry completely in my room where better than normally drip-drying them in my room.
But ultimately, Photo-Flo and steamed up shower work best (for me).
Greetings, Ljós

 

[vytasn]

I would like to second the Roger Hicks method of drying negative diagonally. I recently have been having a lot of trouble with water spots and white specks, so yesterday I tried drying my negatives diagonally (used regular water and photo-flo, no squeegee) and they came out perfectly spotless! Needless to say I was overjoyed.

 

[shortstop]

I would like to second the Roger Hicks method of drying negative diagonally. I recently have been having a lot of trouble with water spots and white specks, so yesterday I tried drying my negatives diagonally (used regular water and photo-flo, no squeegee) and they came out perfectly spotless! Needless to say I was overjoyed.

I imagine how hang uo diagonally a 4x5, but a roll film?

 

[f16sunshine]

Serve your film a cocktail !

Serve your film a cocktail !

Does anyone else use a bit of alcohol?

For my final rinse I use 700ml of distilled water mixed with 50mls of isopropyl alcohol.
The alcohol mixes easily with the water making a nice cocktail.

Once hung to dry the water slides off much more easily and evaporates quickly leaving no marks.
Thank you Roger for the diagonal idea. I will use that for sheets the next time I make 4x5 soup!
My rolls have been nice and clean since getting rid of the soap (photo-flo) and adopting alcohol.

 

[Fotohuis]

You can go till 70% IPA which was used in press photography but adding IPA can dry a film in such a fast way that soft emulsion type films can even reticulate.

For trouble free drying of every B&W film you can use destilled water with a minimum amount of wetting agent.

The succes of tap water with wetting agent is depending of course of the local quality of the tap which can vary enormous for photographic purposes.

The trick with the first period drying diagonally of the film is working well.

 

[stephan_cautaerts]

If tap water is too hard, you can rinse with distilled water only, using a cascade method as described in Rollei or Ilford instructions:

1. Fill tank with water of 20°C, invert five times, leave to stand for 5 min
2. Change water, invert 10 times, leave to stand for 5 min
3. Change water, invert 20 times, leave to stand for 5 min
4. final wash with distilled water and wetting agent, p.e Ilfotol in 1+200

Never had any problem with this method.

 

[vytasn]

Hicks Method

Hicks Method

This is my interpretation of the Roger Hicks diagonal drying method. The drying lockers at my university are not ideal but it works. I use paper clips on either end, and at the bottom I add an elastic band and pin it to the wall. No spots since using this method.

 

[shortstop]

This is my interpretation of the Roger Hicks diagonal drying method. The drying lockers at my university are not ideal but it works. I use paper clips on either end, and at the bottom I add an elastic band and pin it to the wall. No spots since using this method.

It seems dangerous for the film and can hang up only one film.
The only advice can give is using demineralized water and 3-4 drops every half liter, no more, of wetting agent without sqeezing (other dangerous procedure). Can assure, it works. Don't use absolutely the wetting agent dosage indicated in the instructions; they are excessive and when dry the negative has many residual wetting agent.

 

[Ljós]

This is my interpretation of the Roger Hicks diagonal drying method. The drying lockers at my university are not ideal but it works. I use paper clips on either end, and at the bottom I add an elastic band and pin it to the wall. No spots since using this method.

One can't argue with results (and your films have been spotless for you so far), but I am not sure I would want to trust important pictures to this implementation. (Also the way the films hangs and can twist it is sure mostly diagonal, but with gravity pulling the water not down and away but down and onto the film in some places...)

 

[f16sunshine]

You can go till 70% IPA which was used in press photography but adding IPA can dry a film in such a fast way that soft emulsion type films can even reticulate.

For trouble free drying of every B&W film you can use destilled water with a minimum amount of wetting agent.

The succes of tap water with wetting agent is depending of course of the local quality of the tap which can vary enormous for photographic purposes.

The trick with the first period drying diagonally of the film is working well.

Wow! 70% ?
That's a lot. I'm using about 7% and even then the alcohol I start with is labeled 70% ... having been reduced with distilled water to meet "off the shelf" sales regulations.

In any event, it works very well for me with no reticulation so far.

Cheers!

 

[DNG]

OK, without having read all the other "here's what I do" posts, here's mine:

1. Throw the squeegee away.
2. After all the rinsing I make up 300 ml of distilled/de-ionised water with about 1 ml of Ilfotol (wetting agent).
3. Wash the film in this for a minute or so.
4. Pour it back into the beaker it came from
5. Hang up the film (don't touch it with anything).
6. With a 20 ml syringe (no needle) apply a gentle jet to the top of one side of the film and progress downwards at a reasonable rate. Repeat 2 or 3 times until arrive at the bottom.
7. Repeat other side.
8. Leave room

This is in my cellar where the washing machine is, it's tiled and there's a runoff in the floor. 100 ml of the solution on the floor is not a problem.

Advantages: No scratching whatsoever. No calcium carbonate (scale) spots.

Some people hang their film in special film hangers, or in the bathroom where a hot shower has been run. The steam gets rids of the dust. Whatever.

colin

For areas with hard tap water... I use Filtered water with a 200ppm filter for diluted chemical that touches the film

This method works well.... I use the top workflow minus #4, #6,#7 Plus a steamed up bathroom...I use my Photo Flo once and dump it.

takes about 2h, or

1h if I use a hair dryer on medium heat to dry both sides at 40-50m in from hanging it up.

*I keep the dryer moving back/forth along 1/2 of the base side of the film length for a minute or so, then the other 1/2 of the same side.
*The dryer is about 1.5 feet away. And I hold the bottom clip and bring the film at 45 degree angle to floor.
*Repeat on the emotion side of the film.
*repeat each side as needed.

 

[mfunnell]

Repeat on the emotion side of the film.

That's the side I like best, too. :angel:

...Mike