BW film developing - drying marks

[Erik van Straten]

I recently had the same "drop" on a Tmax400 film. Never had it before. I live in Amsterdam.

Maybe it helps to wipe the emulsion side of the film immediatly after it hangs to dry with a polyester/polyamide cloth. Very carefully and only one fast stroke. I will try that.

Erik.

 

[Fotohuis]

Touching a wet emulsion is always tricky however the Tmax emulsion is sturdy. You can try the glossy side only.

 

[Saganich]

First take your water out as a variable by using distilled water (without any products) as either a final 30-second bath with some agitation after washing or hang the film and spritz both sides with distilled or deionized water like I do. If that doesn't work then add half the recommended amount of wetting agent to the distilled or DI water and try that. If that doesn't work then you need to think about processing with filtered water.

 

[Doug A]

I use only distilled water for my entire 35mm film developing process. I use it for my working solutions of Rodinal and rapid fixer. I use it for a plain water stop bath. And I use it for the three changes of water of the Ilford film washing method. After the third wash I remove the film from the reel, firmly hold the two ends of the film and snap it sharply out straight several times to remove the bulk of the water, hang the film from the shower curtain rod, remove my nitryl gloves (undiluted Rodinal is very corrosive) and, while my hands are still wet from the wash water, I gently wipe the film just once from top to bottom between my first and middle fingers. I have been doing this for years. No water spots and no scratches.

With my 250 ml Kindermann tank the entire process uses less than 1.5 liters of distilled water. A 1 gallon jug costs me just $1.

 

[schlops]

First take your water out as a variable by using distilled water (without any products) as either a final 30-second bath with some agitation after washing or hang the film and spritz both sides with distilled or deionized water like I do. If that doesn't work then add half the recommended amount of wetting agent to the distilled or DI water and try that. If that doesn't work then you need to think about processing with filtered water.

I use distilled water with as much Photo-Flo as Kodak recommends for the final wash.
I use fresh Ilford Rapid Fixer and Kodak HC-110 for developing the Ilford HP5+

The water from the tab I use for the fixer and developer should be the same as ever, because I haven't moved in years and in Vienna we have water straight from mountains.

 

[schlops]

For me the Tetenal stuff, mixed with distilled water 1:400 as it said on the bottle works well. But some ppl say with distilled water, use less wetting agent, you could try that.
I've never had stains only on the emulsion side. Maaaybe they're created earlier in the process? Wild guess, but does your developer contain sodium carbonate? Is your stop bath fresh? Acidic fixer?

Ilford Rapid Fixer and Kodak HC-110.

Maybe I'll try it with less wetting agent or none at all. Also worked fine for me, just had to wipe down the negatives with a damp cloth. Still better than having those stains burned into the negative

 

[Saganich]

I use distilled water with as much Photo-Flo as Kodak recommends for the final wash.
I use fresh Ilford Rapid Fixer and Kodak HC-110 for developing the Ilford HP5+

The water from the tab I use for the fixer and developer should be the same as ever, because I haven't moved in years and in Vienna we have water straight from mountains.

Good, try a couple of rolls without photoflo. I had similar issues and when I eliminated photoflo and started using distilled water as a final rince I never had an issue again. That said, during the pandemic I couldn't get any distilled water, and did use photoflo again but not in a tank, but by mixing it less than half strength in a squeeze bottle and running a bead of water from top to bottom of the hanging film. This seems to also work well.

 

[Doug A]

Another issue with Photo-Flo is some empirical evidence that over time some users find their Paterson reels not loading properly (the little ball bearings stick in their track). I was using Photo-Flo when I gave up on my Paterson tank and reel I was using for 120 film.Years later I had stopped using Photo-Flo when I bought another Paterson reel that worked perfectly for a number of years. I eventually replaced the Paterson reel with the Samigon equivalent (MUCH easier to load) and it too is working flawlessly.

 

[bluesun267]

I bought Photo-Flo instead of the Ilford one, mixed it with distilled water to the correct dilution and did/do everything as Godfrey said.

I still get these marks and they are not on the negative, they are "burned" into it. I'm very, very frustrated at this point. I'm not developing since 1968 but still doing it for 15 years now and never ran into so much problems..

Huge nose on the cropped one and lots of streaks inbetween the antennas

I think you need to examine the film more closely to determine whether they're in the emulsion or on the base side.

If they are indeed burned into the emulsion, we have an entirely different problem, a developer problem (either insufficient agitation or fixer contamination).

I get these same marks (on the base side) and I can assure you they are not burned in if due to wash problems. To remove them I use the condensation from my breath and a very soft film or lens cleaning cloth. Get a good one, like the orange cloths Ilford sells (or used to sell). I've found those "micro fiber" cleaning cloths they give away with eyeglasses sometimes scratch, so do don't skimp on a good cloth. Your breath is essentially nature's own distilled water source and is the best (and often only) substance to effectively removes mineral deposits from film.

That being said, I've found ways to mostly avoid it, one of which is using the "Zero-Water" pitchers for the final bath water with the appropriate amount of Photo-flo. (I also use the filtered water for drinking and ice making). The filters are a bit expensive but remove 99.9% of dissolved solids in your water (bottled distilled water is just as good or better).

If you just re-wash the offending roll using the above procedure you will substantially reduce the amount of frame by frame cleaning you need to do.

 

[bluesun267]

One other thing is I only use metal reels and tanks. I've tried the Paterson and other plastic reels/tank systems and never could get along with them, and one of the reasons I avoid them is they seem to produce more drying spots for me.
I know many photogs will disagree with this!
But for me, metal is the elegant, trustworthy, and easy-to-clean way to develop film. Doing inversions is not messy, and there's better tactile feedback in both the film loading process and in terms of what your film is doing inside the tank while developing.

 

[schlops]

I think you need to examine the film more closely to determine whether they're in the emulsion or on the base side.

If they are indeed burned into the emulsion, we have an entirely different problem, a developer problem (either insufficient agitation or fixer contamination).

I get these same marks (on the base side) and I can assure you they are not burned in if due to wash problems. To remove them I use the condensation from my breath and a very soft film or lens cleaning cloth. Get a good one, like the orange cloths Ilford sells (or used to sell). I've found those "micro fiber" cleaning cloths they give away with eyeglasses sometimes scratch, so do don't skimp on a good cloth. Your breath is essentially nature's own distilled water source and is the best (and often only) substance to effectively removes mineral deposits from film.

That being said, I've found ways to mostly avoid it, one of which is using the "Zero-Water" pitchers for the final bath water with the appropriate amount of Photo-flo. (I also use the filtered water for drinking and ice making). The filters are a bit expensive but remove 99.9% of dissolved solids in your water (bottled distilled water is just as good or better).

If you just re-wash the offending roll using the above procedure you will substantially reduce the amount of frame by frame cleaning you need to do.

Yes, they are definitely inside the emulsion.

Thanks for all the tipps, I'll do some developing next week and will let you know how it turned out.

 

[schlops]

I think you need to examine the film more closely to determine whether they're in the emulsion or on the base side.

If they are indeed burned into the emulsion, we have an entirely different problem, a developer problem (either insufficient agitation or fixer contamination).

I get these same marks (on the base side) and I can assure you they are not burned in if due to wash problems. To remove them I use the condensation from my breath and a very soft film or lens cleaning cloth. Get a good one, like the orange cloths Ilford sells (or used to sell). I've found those "micro fiber" cleaning cloths they give away with eyeglasses sometimes scratch, so do don't skimp on a good cloth. Your breath is essentially nature's own distilled water source and is the best (and often only) substance to effectively removes mineral deposits from film.

That being said, I've found ways to mostly avoid it, one of which is using the "Zero-Water" pitchers for the final bath water with the appropriate amount of Photo-flo. (I also use the filtered water for drinking and ice making). The filters are a bit expensive but remove 99.9% of dissolved solids in your water (bottled distilled water is just as good or better).

If you just re-wash the offending roll using the above procedure you will substantially reduce the amount of frame by frame cleaning you need to do.

Now having the problem again, it seems to me that it is more of an issue related to the developing process, as I honestly can't see anything on the negatives. It looks like there's parts, where the negativ isn't properly developed.

BUT what confuses me, the streaks are running from left to right, in a almost straight line, on the strip. With the agitation during the developing phase, thats totally impossible. So that's why I only can think of the last step to be the problem.

Honestly, I've become desperate..

 

[bluesun267]

Now having the problem again, it seems to me that it is more of an issue related to the developing process, as I honestly can't see anything on the negatives. It looks like there's parts, where the negativ isn't properly developed.

BUT what confuses me, the streaks are running from left to right, in a almost straight line, on the strip. With the agitation during the developing phase, thats totally impossible. So that's why I only can think of the last step to be the problem.

Honestly, I've become desperate..

I'm having the same problem lately. Despite my filtered water and so on. I've narrowed it down to being an issue with low sulfite developers (for me it is Rodinal, but HC-110 I believe is similar in having low sulfite content).

My answer is to switch to a developer with lots of sodium sulfite like D-76 or D-23 and it goes away. Try it and see for yourself.

Too bad I love the look of Rodinal so much:bang:


A more egregious example: