BW film without the 'infrared' look

[Ko.Fe.]

Foma400 is the last film I would use to judge modern films. It is totally norm to have weird image with F400. 🙂
I looked at portraits I have and it seems to be related to the format (MF gives more tones) and exposure (good light is needed, not just shadow place).

Polypan F (missing anti glare layer)



TMAX 400.

 

[Dwig]

I've noticed that most films nowadays have red biased spectral sensitivity - ie they are very red-sensitive. For me this is unpleasant, since most portraits end up looking a bit ghostly, the skin is too light and the lips especially are too bright. ...Does anyone know which modern films don't suffer from this 'feature'
I think tri-x is quite good in that regard, but would love to find something a bit cheaper

I can't help you with modern films, but if you go the filter route I would suggest experimenting with the equivalent of a Wratten #11 (old designation was "X1"). It will reduce blue somewhat while also reducing reds. It was the classic choice for male portraits back in the day. Skin tone will be ruddier and lips darker.

I doubt you could find one, but a Wratten #44 would be another consideration. It is a "minus-red" filter.

As everyone should know, filters only take away; they never add.

 

[jbielikowski]

No problem at all, there are several films which render skin tones a bit darker and more natural:

1. Panchromatic films with little red sensivity:
- Adox Silvermax
- Adox CHS 100 II
- Agfa Copex Rapid

2. Real orthopanchromatic films with lesser red sensivity:
- Fuji Neopan Acros 100
- Adox CMS 20 II

3. Orthochromatic films (red blind):
- Ilford Ortho (only available in sheets)
- Rollei Ortho 25

I've used all these films for portraits, and especially the films from group 1 and 2 are excellent for portraits (group 3 orthochromatic films have sometimes too dark skin tones).

Cheers, Jan

Adox CHS 100 II is my fav for portraits, great stuff.

 

[monopix]

There is such a color as magenta in the light reflected by the subject.

Nope. The visible spectrum is the visible spectrum regardless of whether it's reflected or not. Magenta only exists in our brains when our eyes get a mixture of blue and red light.

Red is a special case.

Nothing special about red. It's just a another wavelength.

I have the Kodak transmission charts for all Kodak Wratten filters. But I didn't think it necessary to go into all that just now, for present purposes.

It's the ONLY way to describe what a filter does.

Will you settle for a version that leaves out complementary colors: Filters lighten their own color,

I think we've done that one to death haven't we.

and darken most other colors.

That depends on the spectral response.

I think of orange as intense yellow: Kodak stop bath is orange in the bottle and becomes yellow when diluted.

Sorry. Totally lost me now. But it won't change colour (as in changing its spectral colour) by diluting it. It just becomes less dense and allows more white light to pass through.

 

[Huss]

I've noticed that most films nowadays have red biased spectral sensitivity - ie they are very red-sensitive. For me this is unpleasant, since most portraits end up looking a bit ghostly, the skin is too light and the lips especially are too bright. See attached foma400 example to see what I mean.

In my experience Ilford films also have this heightened red sensitivity in portraits. Not as bad as that Foma shot, but nonetheless...

Here's fp4+

It's not just the film. It's also technique (lighting, focus etc).
Your first image is not sharp/out of focus which in itself creates 'glow'.
Your second one has stronger lighting (or correct exposure?) as well as being in focus. Which creates a more defined image.

 

[charjohncarter]

I've noticed that most films nowadays have red biased spectral sensitivity - ie they are very red-sensitive. For me this is unpleasant, since most portraits end up looking a bit ghostly, the skin is too light and the lips especially are too bright. See attached foma400 example to see what I mean.

Does anyone know which modern films don't suffer from this 'feature'
I think tri-x is quite good in that regard, but would love to find something a bit cheaper

I've found Arista EDU ultra 400 to be blue sensitive. Is that the same as Foma 400? I haven't tried it (Arista EDU ultra 400) with portraits but I always use an orange filter because the sky is always blown with this film (without filter). I'd be careful with a blue filter, it really emphasizes freckles.

 

[znapper]

Yeah, I don't shoot Ilford delta for the very reason you mention, I haven't tried FP4+ too much with model-shoots, but I though that film was rather "old-school".

Also, I think the light-type also plays a bit of a role (I may be wrong), be it sunshine, shadow or studio-flashes. (at least the color-temperature is different, so it may influence the final rendering, not sure).

Anyway, try Fomapan 100.
Bear in mind that I tend to shoot models that use a bit of lipstick, it's hard to make pale, pink lips to stand out with any film.

Fomapan 100, no filter:

This one used a bit less lipstick

TMax 100 ain't all that bad, but again, a bit of a color-dab goes a long way:
Tmax 100, no filter:
T-Max Fem-guard by Ole-Henrik Helin, on Flickr

I have hoarded and frozen Neopan 400 because it tend to render red lips very nicely, like here:
Neopan 400, no filter

I feel Neopan 100 does a pretty good job, rendering paler lips with some color still, like here, where the model used very little makeup:
Neopan 100, no filter, studio-lights:
Acros portrait, printed on Ilford Multigrade IV by Ole-Henrik Helin, on Flickr

If you want to go completely nuts with reds, then Rollei Ortho 25 is your best bet, reds will go black (I don't think this film can see red at all).
And it curls like a spring and can hardly even be scanned, but I love the results (in the right setting):
Rollei Ortho 25, studio-flashes, no filter.
Merry Rollei Christmas by Ole-Henrik Helin, on Flickr

As for Kodak Tri-X and other films, like HP5, try a green-filter to get more definition in skin and darker lips, I use that with blonde and pale people with "very alabaster skin" and it works ok, nothing dramatic though, but more definition and none of that "IR-light" nonsense.

Red filters will make typical modern films look like infrared films even more, blue-filters will show way more blemishes in the skin and also often render the skin-tones way to dark. (try out a few filter-presets in IE lightroom on a color-portrait, to see the effect with various filters).

If you can, try to get the girl in question to put at least a little color on her lips, it will go a long way to avoid pale ones in the end-result.

 

[Skiff]

Yeah, I don't shoot Ilford delta for the very reason you mention, I haven't tried FP4+ too much with model-shoots, but I though that film was rather "old-school".

Neither Delta 100 nor FP4+ have higher sensivity to red like the Fomapans.
And Delta 100 has even less red sensivity and is in this regard even more "old-school" than FP4+.
Just have a look at the spectral sensivity curves:
Delta 100:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1866/product_id/679/

FP4+:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1880/product_id/686/

Delta 100 is an excellent portrait film, by the way.

 

[x-ray]

Use a red filter.

No, Red will make it worse. Use a green filter. You want to block some of the Red not pass more.

 

[sevo]

No, Red will make it worse. Use a green filter. You want to block some of the Red not pass more.

You do not want monochromatic filters, unless for dramatic effect - a green filter will not undo the effect, but shift it to green. If the film is too red sensitive, colour correction filters (tungsten to daylight conversion or even something less radical) will fare better. Mild "yellow-green" black and white filters did pretty much the same, but these already grew increasingly rare twenty years ago and seem to have been discontinued by all high-profile makers - you would have to shop for used or NOS filters there...

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Agree with x-ray on green filter.

...
Your first image is not sharp/out of focus which in itself creates 'glow'...

This is what F400 was often giving me even if focus was spot on. After finishing bulk of it and switching to normal 400 film I was astonished to see sharp images again. 😀

 

[charjohncarter]

znapper, that was a very nice post on portraiture.

 

[znapper]

Neither Delta 100 nor FP4+ have higher sensivity to red like the Fomapans.
And Delta 100 has even less red sensivity and is in this regard even more "old-school" than FP4+.
Just have a look at the spectral sensivity curves:
Delta 100:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1866/product_id/679/

FP4+:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1880/product_id/686/

Delta 100 is an excellent portrait film, by the way.

Maybe it was the delta 400 then, tried that indoors during Christmas and people ended up looking like ghosts 😀

 

[giganova]

A light green or blue filter is great for portraits.

 

[bakemono]

Thanks for the tips everyone!

I know the photo is not a good shot technically, but it seemed to illustrate my problem very well. I really didn't like foma400 from the single roll I've shot. Here is another shot from the same roll, but with better focus and exposure. Might be that the development was at fault, but I haven't pursued this film any further.

 

[kxl]

No problem at all, there are several films which render skin tones a bit darker and more natural:

1. Panchromatic films with little red sensivity:
- Adox Silvermax
- Adox CHS 100 II
- Agfa Copex Rapid

2. Real orthopanchromatic films with lesser red sensivity:
- Fuji Neopan Acros 100
- Adox CMS 20 II

3. Orthochromatic films (red blind):
- Ilford Ortho (only available in sheets)
- Rollei Ortho 25

I've used all these films for portraits, and especially the films from group 1 and 2 are excellent for portraits (group 3 orthochromatic films have sometimes too dark skin tones).

Cheers, Jan

I've been curious about Silvermax. Maybe I'll pick up a couple of rolls.

 

[Nokton48]

These look way too clinical for my tastes. Here is one with Eastman XX movie film:

Kodak Eastman XX (5222) by Matt Osborne, on Flickr

 

[ChrisPlatt]

I find a yellow-green filter (X0 or PO0) works well for most subjects and conditions.
I consider it an almost "universal" filter and tend to use one most of the time for BW.

Chris