the.ronin
Established
I've done some research but still a bit confused about storing C-41. I have done black & white developing and am comfortable with that process now.
Let's say I were to mix a full 1 liter batch of developer, blix, and stabilizer. What if I only want to develop a single roll of 35mm which needs just 300ml of chemistry. Could I store the rest of the 700ml developer at room temp for later use? What about the blix? I'm assuming stabilizer I can since it's at room temp anyway as far as I understand.
And to be clear, I cannot re-use color developer right? That is what I've understood for B&W developer.
Lastly, tutorials I've read suggest that the time it takes for the developer is short enough that temp decreases should not be a concern. Is that right?
Thanks for any advice.
Let's say I were to mix a full 1 liter batch of developer, blix, and stabilizer. What if I only want to develop a single roll of 35mm which needs just 300ml of chemistry. Could I store the rest of the 700ml developer at room temp for later use? What about the blix? I'm assuming stabilizer I can since it's at room temp anyway as far as I understand.
And to be clear, I cannot re-use color developer right? That is what I've understood for B&W developer.
Lastly, tutorials I've read suggest that the time it takes for the developer is short enough that temp decreases should not be a concern. Is that right?
Thanks for any advice.
petronius
Veteran
I use the Tetenal C-41 kit. After mixing the chemicals I store them at room temperature in black bottles. The kit is good for ca 15 rolls, according to the manual. I use the developer/blix I need for the tank and pour it back into the bottle afterwards.
I began developing with very careful temperature/process control, but later I started to modify the process a little. My experiences are collected here: Developing C-41
I began developing with very careful temperature/process control, but later I started to modify the process a little. My experiences are collected here: Developing C-41
Chris101
summicronia
I use the Unicolor kit to mix the three chemicals needed to develop C41: developer, blix, and stabilizer. They all keep very well when mixed. I use them until I start to notice that I cannot scan the negatives and correct the color. Like Petronius, it's usually 15-16 rolls before it gets funky.
I'm also real lazy about the temperature. I put the bottles in a tub of water at the desired temperature for a half hour or so before developing. During the development step, I put the tank in the tub too. After development, I start to let it cool off.
I'm also real lazy about the temperature. I put the bottles in a tub of water at the desired temperature for a half hour or so before developing. During the development step, I put the tank in the tub too. After development, I start to let it cool off.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Wrong!
As the others have suggested the Colour developer is good for up to 15 rolls. According to some kits slightly less if those rolls are high speed films (400ISO+) I'd say 12-15 Rolls per litre is easy I extend my developing time by 30sec once I hit 10 rolls.
Store your developer in air tight bottles and they should last at least a month possibly up to three.
Blix lasts longer and likes to be stored in a airtight bottle but likes oxygen prior to use (I shake mine in a half filled bottle for 1 min before use)
Temperature isn't as critical as you'd think, certainly don't be scared, just follow the instructions and all will be OK
AJShepherd
Well-known
I also use the Tetenal C41 kit and I store the developer, bleach/fix and stabiliser in three 'concertina' bottles which I can squeeze down to try and keep as much air out.
You do reuse the developer as others have said, so I empty the chemicals out into a jug (which I reserve for photographic use) and then pour them back into their bottles, giving the jug a rinse between steps.
Keeps reasonably well for a few months, but I've found there seems to be some kind of drop off point where you end up with very thin negatives, so if you don't shoot colour that often it could be a consideration. I tend to wait until I have a few colour films to process before i get a new kit. I think five months is the longest I've had the kit and still got excellent results, after six it fails.
As far as temperature control is concerned, I stand the bottles in hot water until they're up to temperature, but that's it. So long as the developer is the right temperature when it goes in, it'll work for the short development time. I don't bother keeping the developing tank in hot water during development or anything.
The Tetenal kit's instructions also tells you how to extend development time depending on how many rolls you've developed.
You do reuse the developer as others have said, so I empty the chemicals out into a jug (which I reserve for photographic use) and then pour them back into their bottles, giving the jug a rinse between steps.
Keeps reasonably well for a few months, but I've found there seems to be some kind of drop off point where you end up with very thin negatives, so if you don't shoot colour that often it could be a consideration. I tend to wait until I have a few colour films to process before i get a new kit. I think five months is the longest I've had the kit and still got excellent results, after six it fails.
As far as temperature control is concerned, I stand the bottles in hot water until they're up to temperature, but that's it. So long as the developer is the right temperature when it goes in, it'll work for the short development time. I don't bother keeping the developing tank in hot water during development or anything.
The Tetenal kit's instructions also tells you how to extend development time depending on how many rolls you've developed.
the.ronin
Established
All, thanks so much for the feedback. When I first got into film just back in February, my sense was that I would just do B&W and leave color to the lab. I had seen the convoluted looking jobo machines and thought no way - both from an expense and complexity standpoint. Having gone through a dozen or so B&W rolls now, I looked into color again to find that it really is not much different from B&W.
Can I confirm though that you do NOT recycle B&W developer? Specifically, I use Ilfosol-3 for B&W. I was always under the impression it was one time use for B&W developer.
So now that I know I can store all C-41 chemistry, I plan to mix the entire 1 liter (assuming I get 1 liter powder) and store them in those accordian bottles.
I have to ask though, say you're on your 16th recycle and turns out the chemistry has gone bad. Your roll isn't fully developed. Do you just chuck this roll or in it through the process again? Maybe it's just because I'm new to this but the idea of losing a whole roll doesn't sound good to me lol.
Thanks again everyone! Looking forward to developing my first color rolls!!!
Can I confirm though that you do NOT recycle B&W developer? Specifically, I use Ilfosol-3 for B&W. I was always under the impression it was one time use for B&W developer.
So now that I know I can store all C-41 chemistry, I plan to mix the entire 1 liter (assuming I get 1 liter powder) and store them in those accordian bottles.
I have to ask though, say you're on your 16th recycle and turns out the chemistry has gone bad. Your roll isn't fully developed. Do you just chuck this roll or in it through the process again? Maybe it's just because I'm new to this but the idea of losing a whole roll doesn't sound good to me lol.
Thanks again everyone! Looking forward to developing my first color rolls!!!
petronius
Veteran
Do not worry about the 16th roll. I developed 29 rolls in one litre and even the last was useable.
the.ronin
Established
Thanks petronius. I should clarify though. What I meant was say you find that your chemistry has gone bad (whether it be on your 16th or 29th roll). Do you just chuck that roll or do you run it through the process again but with new chemistry?
I'd assume you just chuck the roll lest you have to judge appropriate compensation for what has been developed.
I'd assume you just chuck the roll lest you have to judge appropriate compensation for what has been developed.
Mablo
Well-known
Simply keep an eye on the colour saturation of your negatives. It will give you an advanced warning that your chemicals are becoming weak. It's not like one roll is good and the next one is totally blank.
the.ronin
Established
Got it! Thank you, Mablo.
zauhar
Veteran
Don't know if this is already suggested, but my approach is make 600 ml working solutions (appropriate for my tank) and reserve 400 mls each of developer and blix. The working solutions are reused for ~ ten rolls, then I mix the 400 ml reserves with 200 ml of the used solutions to make a second round of the working solutions. I use those for 4 more rolls.
That seems to work OK.
Randy
That seems to work OK.
Randy
Chris101
summicronia
"Going bad" is not a binary thing. The developer will get weaker as it becomes exhausted. The first issue you will notice is the film speed decreases and the color will shift slightly cooler. When you notice this is approaching unacceptability, it's time to remake your chemistry.
alienmeatsack
Well-known
I've done around 30 rolls in my kit without issues and it's still going strong. I just keep adding a little time to the two main processes every so often to balance the results I got.
I found that my biggest issue was actually not the chemicals lasting but the Developer itself getting water into it. Basically, when I had finished my presoak and drained the water, I was not taping out all of the extra water that would tap out, and then when I'd pour the dev in and back out, it slowly grew until it was near the mouth of the bottle. This both watered it down a bit and made it difficult to deal with.
So since I realized this, I've been very carefully getting as much of the presoak water out as possible.
Everynoe else's comments are spot on. It's ridiculously easy to do and as long as you just watch the process, you will get good results.
The only place you will run into issues will be expired film that needs a little more attention in the developer section or cross processing that needs less or more to get it right in the developer.
I think I actually get better results with the UNicolor kit then I do with my Diafine in regards to the lack of gunk on the film.
I found that my biggest issue was actually not the chemicals lasting but the Developer itself getting water into it. Basically, when I had finished my presoak and drained the water, I was not taping out all of the extra water that would tap out, and then when I'd pour the dev in and back out, it slowly grew until it was near the mouth of the bottle. This both watered it down a bit and made it difficult to deal with.
So since I realized this, I've been very carefully getting as much of the presoak water out as possible.
Everynoe else's comments are spot on. It's ridiculously easy to do and as long as you just watch the process, you will get good results.
The only place you will run into issues will be expired film that needs a little more attention in the developer section or cross processing that needs less or more to get it right in the developer.
I think I actually get better results with the UNicolor kit then I do with my Diafine in regards to the lack of gunk on the film.
zauhar
Veteran
...
I think I actually get better results with the UNicolor kit then I do with my Diafine in regards to the lack of gunk on the film.
Gunk is a real issue with this kit, though. I have been giving the film a final rinse in photoflo, even though you are not supposed to do that. Yeah, the ''stabilizer" has some sort of detergent in it, but it makes a lousy drying agent, with nasty white streaks.
It is much better with photoflo, still not without residue.
Not sure if this has something to do with my water, the water here is pretty soft.
Randy
alienmeatsack
Well-known
I get the same issues with streaks with their stabilizer. So I always rinse with Photoflo as well afterwards and hand squeegee the film. I have way less issues with it like this. I have been curious if adding a little Photoflo right into the Stab will be problematic and if it would help any.
As far as gunk goes, I try to filter my solutions through a double coffee filter every 10 rolls. I found that this helps keep the dots and gunk out of the mix a little. Oddly enough, I do the same with my Diafine solutions and the Step A still has stuff in it that will not come out.
In regards to the OP's original idea of making up smaller portions to keep the powder fresh, I don't know why you couldn't do that if you measured it out into say 1/2 sized portions and then mixed up each as you needed them. That would technically make the solutions go further since you aren't using the entirety of each with each roll you run through. You'd just need to make sure you had them mixed properly and stored the unused powders safely.
As far as gunk goes, I try to filter my solutions through a double coffee filter every 10 rolls. I found that this helps keep the dots and gunk out of the mix a little. Oddly enough, I do the same with my Diafine solutions and the Step A still has stuff in it that will not come out.
In regards to the OP's original idea of making up smaller portions to keep the powder fresh, I don't know why you couldn't do that if you measured it out into say 1/2 sized portions and then mixed up each as you needed them. That would technically make the solutions go further since you aren't using the entirety of each with each roll you run through. You'd just need to make sure you had them mixed properly and stored the unused powders safely.
Classique
Well-known
Just keep in mind that in hot environment, the developer may go bad faster. Mine was good while it lasted but once it went bad, the roll was completely blank.
alienmeatsack
Well-known
Is that blank film the result of the developer specifically going bad or the blix in concert with the bad developer?
has anyone ever tried to not mix the blix as one, and do a bleach and a fixer separately as their own steps using one of these kits?
has anyone ever tried to not mix the blix as one, and do a bleach and a fixer separately as their own steps using one of these kits?
zauhar
Veteran
Glad it's not just me!
What do you use to squeegee the film? I actually have a film squeegee, but some have suggested it might scratch the film, and I can believe that.
Randy
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Probably hard water or too low humidity during drying. Stabiliser hasn't got 'some sort of detergent in it' it has a chemical (normally formaldehyde) that literally stabilises the colour dyes and helps image permanence.
Years back a chemist at Fuji Hunt told me if you use normal photo-flow or wash after the stabiliser you lessen the archival quality of the colour dyes, possibly even taking the life of the dyes below 10 years.
Mix the stab with de-mineralised water, don't make it over strength. Mine dry to a mirror finish.
It's an attractive idea, tempting to try. But I've been told that there are a variety of solids in the powder that are not evenly distributed in the container. So it's reasonable to suspect that mixing up, say, half of the package might not include the correct distribution.
I always squeegee my film, b&w and color, using a red plastic film squeegee that looks like a set of tongs with two pairs of thin rubber blades facing each other at the business end. This makes it easy to be gentle with the action. I leave the final rinse water with PhotoFlo in the tank, and pull out the reel, remove the film, attach the hanger and the weighted clip, hang the film (in the shower stall)... Swash the squeegee around in the tank to get it wet, then pour the PhotoFlo mix from the tank down the length of the hanging film. Using both hands to guide it, I run the squeegee gently once down the film strip and shut the shower door. I don't get scratches...