NukePity
Member
using a freshly mixed unicolor home kit, stainless steel tank, epson v800, vuescan...
finally got a good thermometer. a jobo one that measures in tenths of a degree, so I know the temp is pretty much spot on. During dev I kept within .3 of 102f. It was a standard 3:30 dev, I added a shotglass or so of hot water during the time to my lunch-cooler reservoir. during blix kept pretty steady as well. However, colors are still coming out ugly, and at this point I'm just crestfallen. The negatives look ok AFAICT, only slightly different than lab developed negs. I included a picture showing both on this imgur post. The lab developed negs are on your left. I also included an unedited pic along with one I tried editing. My ps skills are lacking, to say the least. I only know color balance and channel mixer.
https://imgur.com/a/NRXXf
Is it possible that temps in the steel stank are lower than the reservoir, and this is causing the problem? What happens when temps are low? I can't think of much else...
finally got a good thermometer. a jobo one that measures in tenths of a degree, so I know the temp is pretty much spot on. During dev I kept within .3 of 102f. It was a standard 3:30 dev, I added a shotglass or so of hot water during the time to my lunch-cooler reservoir. during blix kept pretty steady as well. However, colors are still coming out ugly, and at this point I'm just crestfallen. The negatives look ok AFAICT, only slightly different than lab developed negs. I included a picture showing both on this imgur post. The lab developed negs are on your left. I also included an unedited pic along with one I tried editing. My ps skills are lacking, to say the least. I only know color balance and channel mixer.
https://imgur.com/a/NRXXf
Is it possible that temps in the steel stank are lower than the reservoir, and this is causing the problem? What happens when temps are low? I can't think of much else...
brbo
Well-known
And home scans on you V800 from lab developed negatives look great?
NukePity
Member
Yeah, they're fine.
michaelwj
----------------
So when you scan the photos that you developed and the ones that the lab developed with the same settings the colour is different?
Since they're different rolls, the only way to tell is if you shoot two identical rolls and develop one and send one off. Otherwise changes in the light that you took the shot in make a huge difference.
My advice is to play around with the Vuescan settings (you can select a different film from the drop down list), find one that looks best and you'll give yourself a better starting point. For instance, in sunlight, I use the Portra film option, but under artificial light I use a different one depending on the lighting.
You also seem way more onto it wrt temp and times that me, and mine worked fine.
Since they're different rolls, the only way to tell is if you shoot two identical rolls and develop one and send one off. Otherwise changes in the light that you took the shot in make a huge difference.
My advice is to play around with the Vuescan settings (you can select a different film from the drop down list), find one that looks best and you'll give yourself a better starting point. For instance, in sunlight, I use the Portra film option, but under artificial light I use a different one depending on the lighting.
You also seem way more onto it wrt temp and times that me, and mine worked fine.
sebastel
coarse art umbrascriptor
colours look right to me -- in the shadows, you need to expect a strong blue cast.
edge100
Well-known
DrMcCoy
Member
I think this is an editing issue. These tones all look well defined (nothing's crushed or flat) and you have a really wide DR to work with.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Good color from C41 is a black art. Built into the film-terms on commercial scanners, can be hard to match.
I shoot a color-checker, find a set of values that get close, use these for similar film/lighting, and accept that the color will have some personality.
I, too, did not think the colors in your samples were "awful."
I shoot a color-checker, find a set of values that get close, use these for similar film/lighting, and accept that the color will have some personality.
I, too, did not think the colors in your samples were "awful."
x-ray
Veteran
No question it's a matter of learning to edit. Canned film profiles are pretty much worthless in my opinion. I always scan in a linear mode with my Imacon. I find even their profiles are worthless. By linear I mean create a preset, if your software allows, where there are no adjustments made by the software. There should b no curves, levels, sharpening and etc. These functions should be by you. My preference is to do as little as possible in the scanning software but do as much as you can in Photoshop.
I previously had a Fuji Lanovia Quattro scanner. It's a top of the line professional machine. The acquisition software only allowed to select the type of film, B&W, Color neg and transparency or print. It did allow selecting a film profile but even with this system I elected to do a no profile linear scan. Fuji had their own, extremely powerful, color correction software that integrated with the entire software system. As I said it was a professional prepress scanner. ColourKit was the color correction software and it basically replaced photoshop.
Unfortunately there's nothing in a consumer scanner now that even approaches the quality or flexibility of the Fuji Finescan, Lanovia Quattro or Creo Scitex Eversmart scanners and software.
Epson scanners, and I own a v750, are just marginal and don't meet up to professional quality. Unfortunately they're about the best we have now in flatbeds so we're stuck with them. Also, unfortunately, the majority of pro level scanners run on legacy computers and software plus there are no spare parts or they are so expensive and hard to get they make it impractical to own these machines. This was the case with my Fuji.
I noticed some weird artifacts in you scan that are probably the result of the scanner. It's not uncommon for scanners to introduce noise in the shadow areas.
Here's your image as I interpret it. It took about 3 minutes to do this sing levels, curves, replace color and the color correction sliders. You just need to learn your way around photoshop.
I previously had a Fuji Lanovia Quattro scanner. It's a top of the line professional machine. The acquisition software only allowed to select the type of film, B&W, Color neg and transparency or print. It did allow selecting a film profile but even with this system I elected to do a no profile linear scan. Fuji had their own, extremely powerful, color correction software that integrated with the entire software system. As I said it was a professional prepress scanner. ColourKit was the color correction software and it basically replaced photoshop.
Unfortunately there's nothing in a consumer scanner now that even approaches the quality or flexibility of the Fuji Finescan, Lanovia Quattro or Creo Scitex Eversmart scanners and software.
Epson scanners, and I own a v750, are just marginal and don't meet up to professional quality. Unfortunately they're about the best we have now in flatbeds so we're stuck with them. Also, unfortunately, the majority of pro level scanners run on legacy computers and software plus there are no spare parts or they are so expensive and hard to get they make it impractical to own these machines. This was the case with my Fuji.
I noticed some weird artifacts in you scan that are probably the result of the scanner. It's not uncommon for scanners to introduce noise in the shadow areas.
Here's your image as I interpret it. It took about 3 minutes to do this sing levels, curves, replace color and the color correction sliders. You just need to learn your way around photoshop.
Attachments
Ronald M
Veteran
I ruined a lot of film with Unicolor. It gave terrible contrast and very high color saturation. It was not a C41 clone as they told me when I called.
Use Tetenal or Kodak . Freestyle Photo in California. Problem went away.
I never reused chemicals. Soak loaded tank in hot water in hot water so as not to cool the chemicals. Chemicals do not last. Use glass bottles.
C41 in a tank is pretty tricky, but i have done it.
How do you know the thermometer is correct. You need a master . Great Number of divisions mean nothing.
Proper time is 3` 15". Allow 15" for pour out. I would not pour in even with B&W. Fill the tank and drop the loaded reel in in total dark.
Agitation is once per 15 sec, 30 sec on immersion.
Use Tetenal or Kodak . Freestyle Photo in California. Problem went away.
I never reused chemicals. Soak loaded tank in hot water in hot water so as not to cool the chemicals. Chemicals do not last. Use glass bottles.
C41 in a tank is pretty tricky, but i have done it.
How do you know the thermometer is correct. You need a master . Great Number of divisions mean nothing.
Proper time is 3` 15". Allow 15" for pour out. I would not pour in even with B&W. Fill the tank and drop the loaded reel in in total dark.
Agitation is once per 15 sec, 30 sec on immersion.
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
Have you tried Auto Level in the Color->Color balance ? It usually fix weird colour for me.
edge100
Well-known
NukePity
Member
Thanks to everyone for the help here. At least it's good to know my dev is fine, the negs are not ruined, and I simply now need to move on to learning ps. I uploaded another half dozen before/after shots from the same batch to show the generally unsatisfying colors (ok not 'awful'). The first example probably wasn't good since it was in the shadows. https://imgur.com/a/6uPiP
I'll research 'correct' time/temps. 102f@3:30 is per unicolor kit instructions. I'll also look into tetenal and linear scanning.
I'll research 'correct' time/temps. 102f@3:30 is per unicolor kit instructions. I'll also look into tetenal and linear scanning.
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DrMcCoy
Member
One thing that might help you is making sure your monitor is color calibrated. You can get a ColorMunki (or other monitor calibrating device). I use the Smile model because my editing room is a highly controlled environment with no light changes, matching monitors, and a straight-to-digital output. If you use a bunch of different computers/monitors to edit, work in a changing light environment, and/or you need/want to get perfect color for prints then you may want to spring for the advanced model.