cmedin
Well-known
Yeah, make sure to get the real deal; there are some flanged adapters out there which while useful for adapting OM lenses to K-mount won't let regular M42 lenses reach infinity.
I too would recommend a closer look at the K20D (granted, I am biased). Not only do you get the extra pixels, but you get the ability to fine-tune the autofocus on lenses, a sync socket, pretty damn good high ISO performance, and other goodies. And there's something intangible about its CMOS sensor; to me it looks a lot more like film than most DSLRs for some reason. In fact, when looking at some shots it struck me that it reminded me of my medium format film shots in a way -- something about the tonality. Either way, lovely results from it.
Regarding focus screens, there's the "jinfinance" one that some of the guys on pentaxforums.com like.
PS: if you want some Taks to play with, I have a few I would let go for a good price.
PPS: I saw mention of the Vivitar 283 earlier; like with all flashes make sure the sync voltage is safe for the camera. I use a Nikon SB-28 on my K20D and it's a fantastic flash for the money as long as you don't want TTL...
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jpfisher
Well-known
You will have absolutely zero issues using "A" series PK lenses with the K10D. Aperture inforamation is translated electronically to the body, you can shoot in any mode.
With "M" and "K" series lenses, you are limited to shooting in Av and M modes. In Av the lens is always wide open, and meters correctly on the K10D.
When you use the lens in M mode, and stop it down to a desired aperture, you can take a meter reading by hitting the "Green Button" (to the left of the shutter release on the K10D). This stops the lens down and sets the appropriate shutter speed.
The K10D doesn't do this correctly, however. It will get the exposure wrong, dramatically wrong, most of the time.
That's the bad news. The good news is, there is a very, very easy fix for this -- replace the default K10D focusing screen with the focusing screen from an *ist DS. Doing this will allow the K10D to meter correctly all the time.
I don't think this will be a problem with M42 lenses, as when you stop the lens down, it stays stopped down, darkening the viewfinder (I believe, I don't have any first-hand experience with M42).
I have yet to replace the focusing screen in my K10D with a split-prism, although it's been on my "eventually I'll get around to doing so..." list forever. but I rarely shoot manual-focus lenses at this point.... you really do need a split-prism to properly focus manually, though -- I took the Zeiss 50mm out for a test drive for a few weeks and wasn't able to get consistent results with the K10D's factory focusing screen. You may have to Google a bit to see if replacing the screen with a split-prism fixes the exposure issue on the K10D -- I'm not sure of that offhand.
Hope this helps,
Jim
snip
Established
Yes but I plain don't want the 5D any more, I hardly ever use it so it is silly having it. I used to use it a lot but I use film for all assignments now, there are so many people with digital slrs out there offering photography services that it's not worth the bother trying to get a piece of the pie, the people that hire me now do so because I offer something different.
//Jan
snip
Established
Pardon my curiosity.
As a fellow old manual lens fan, I wonder since you already have a "full-frame" Canon 5D, why would you downgrade to crop-size Pentax K10D? I've seen the pictures from both, and I'm sorry, full-frame just kicks butt.
Adapters for manual lenses cannot be more abundant if you stay with the EOS mount, M42, Exakta, Pentacon 6... I mean, how more exotic would you like to be.
If you let go of the battery grip and just use your 5D like a regular DSLR (can't do that with the 1D or 1Ds series), it's not much bigger than anything else out there, so not much size-saving from switching to another brand ... unless, you are switching to an Olympus E-420, now that one is tiny.
Oh, and lastly, you can get the EE-S screen to aid manual focusing on the 5D, too bad Canon didn't make the equivalent of the excellent EC-B split-prism focusing screen for 5D (grrrrr!)
Excellent question, allow me to lay out my reasoning.
I can sell the 5D with the grip and the L plate for £1000 I reckon
I can get a K10D for £250, maybe even with the kit zoom lens which would be good to have for the odd occasion where autofocus was nice to have, I would prefer to have an autofocus prime though.
So that's 750 good reasons, I appreciate that the 5D will give better photos but, I will get to this later.
Further to this is the shake reduction in the body, this is a big deal.
Then there is the fact that as we have discussed in this thread I can meter wide open with PKA lenses, Canon blew it by changing from FD to EF in my opinion.
Then we get to the optics I have now for Canon, I have sold all the expensive L primes already and am left with the two zooms and two primes, these should net over a grand too, if I kept the 5D I would keep them and again they would not get used enough.
I appreciate that the 5D has the following very strong points for it.
VERY nice sensor giving almost film like images
Very large and bright viewfinder - Oh I forgot that in the cons's, as you rightly point out, lack of a split prism screen.
And finally, true proportion images, now I'm not that learned about APS-C but you need to crop it to get proportions like that of a 35mm frame yes? As in it won't naturally print on 6x4 for instance.
Having covered these points I can understand how you are puzzled by my decision, but given the fact that I will be using the Pentax as a happy snappy camera more or less I think you can see how keeping the 5D is an excessive action, I'm usually all for excessiveness but it has to stop somewhere.
//Jan
snip
Established
Yeah, make sure to get the real deal; there are some flanged adapters out there which while useful for adapting OM lenses to K-mount won't let regular M42 lenses reach infinity.
I too would recommend a closer look at the K20D (granted, I am biased). Not only do you get the extra pixels, but you get the ability to fine-tune the autofocus on lenses, a sync socket, pretty damn good high ISO performance, and other goodies. And there's something intangible about its CMOS sensor; to me it looks a lot more like film than most DSLRs for some reason. In fact, when looking at some shots it struck me that it reminded me of my medium format film shots in a way -- something about the tonality. Either way, lovely results from it.
Regarding focus screens, there's the "jinfinance" one that some of the guys on pentaxforums.com like.
PS: if you want some Taks to play with, I have a few I would let go for a good price.
PPS: I saw mention of the Vivitar 283 earlier; like with all flashes make sure the sync voltage is safe for the camera. I use a Nikon SB-28 on my K20D and it's a fantastic flash for the money as long as you don't want TTL...
I have seen the screen you mention, yes it is cut from a K1000 screen, the ad says so.
I would be interested in your Tak's PM me..
Dpo't worry about the Vivitars, I would not attach them to any camera, I have some very nice Manfrotto nano stands and radio triggers that are perfectly safe. I never use TTL I use a hand held flash meter and Polaroids or test shots with digital.
Now about the differences between the 10 and the 20
This enthuses me, so one is a ccd and one is a cmos? (See how little I actually care to read up on digital technology, shocking really, it bores me to tears reading about megapixels and moire patterns)
The difference in resolution is not something I can get excited about.
Tell me more about the difference in metering capabilities, with manual film SLR's I am the sort of person that would meter a scene and shoot away, like I do with RF's not meter every single shot. But it's always handy to have a more advanced meter in the camera, especially as it would also be nifty as a spot metering device.
How much better is the high iso performance?
Sync socket is immaterial, I sync from the hot shoe with a radio trigger.
//Jan
snip
Established
Thank you mabelsound for the link.
Yes in camera stabilisation is a key drive for me as well, I have previously expressed interest in a full frame Pentax dslr, but I am just loosing interest in digital capture all together and will be happy with an aps-c I think.
//J
jody36
Well-known
youve gotten most of the info you need already s I will just say if I only had one camera it would be the pentax k10. One camera that I own already that is. I love mine. small, takes nice photos, plenty of good lenses to choose from.
snip
Established
Following up on my comment of rather having a fast AF prime than a kit zoom I was just looking at the line-up of those wonderful looking pancake primes, something I don't understand;
There's a 21 a 40 and a 70, equating to, if I'm not mistaken, 31.5 - 60 and 105mm FOV on the APC-C sized sensor.
Now 105 I can understand, great focal lenght, but 31.5 and 60? What is up with that? surely it would have made more sense to create lenses that equated to 35 and 50mm or am I missing some sort of point here?
//Jan
There's a 21 a 40 and a 70, equating to, if I'm not mistaken, 31.5 - 60 and 105mm FOV on the APC-C sized sensor.
Now 105 I can understand, great focal lenght, but 31.5 and 60? What is up with that? surely it would have made more sense to create lenses that equated to 35 and 50mm or am I missing some sort of point here?
//Jan
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Pentax definitely chooses weird focal lengths. I have no explanation for it.
snip
Established
They sure do,
At any rate 24 and 35mm optics should give nice FOV's
I just wish they had made that 21mm pancake a little longer and the 40mm a little shorter, cause they are well nice, like
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Actually, you know what? The main reason I don't have any of those Pentax pancakes--and I am embarrassed to admit this--is that they look ridiculous on a DSLR. The whole thing just appears unbalanced and odd.
I wish Pentax would do something like the micro-four-thirds concept, a mirrorless, rangefinder-styled live view camera you could stick those pancakes on. Or, I guess, special versions of those pancakes. Maybe they will, if they don't go out of business first.
I wish Pentax would do something like the micro-four-thirds concept, a mirrorless, rangefinder-styled live view camera you could stick those pancakes on. Or, I guess, special versions of those pancakes. Maybe they will, if they don't go out of business first.
snip
Established
Heh, that is quite odd yeah.
No thank you, no composing on a hand held screen for me, I love composing on my ground glass under a cloth, but that is something completely different, a process that takes time and input, not something to be done with a snapshot, and certainly not when said snapshot happens a second and a half later of something completely different that the in camera doodads have decided to somehow focus on and take a picture of.
No I just want an autofocus prime that equates to around 50mm on the 1.5 crop FOV and takes up as little space as possible, and then a collection of lovely old manual focus lenses that I can enjoy, that and after the sale of all my Canon gear and the purchase of the above and a few Vivitar flashes I should have around £1800 left over with which to buy, well more cameras and stuff!
//Jan
DeeCee3
Established
Yes, They Do Look Strange!
Yes, They Do Look Strange!
Agreed, Mabelsound; I had a 40mm pancake and while it performed beautifully, it looked totally out of place mounted on the K10D. It was scalpel-sharp and I quickly adapted to its FOV, but the sight of it mounted on the camera just sort of set my teeth on edge!
dc3
Yes, They Do Look Strange!
Agreed, Mabelsound; I had a 40mm pancake and while it performed beautifully, it looked totally out of place mounted on the K10D. It was scalpel-sharp and I quickly adapted to its FOV, but the sight of it mounted on the camera just sort of set my teeth on edge!
dc3
cmedin
Well-known
Yes, the K20D uses a Samsung developed CMOS sensor while the K10D and other Pentax DSLRs use Sony CCD ones.
ISO performance... from what I have seen it has the edge over a K10D, which is pretty impressive considering it has quite a few more pixels. It's not a HUGE difference, but definitely noticeable at 1600. 3200 is OK depending on exposure/light, 6400 is for emergencies only.
It also completely blows away my GX-1S (rebadged DS2) at ISO 800... Also, one interesting--though highly subjective!--thing is that the noise looks a lot more like grain than digital noise. When converted to monochrome it makes for a very "filmish" looking print! ISO 3200 shots turned monochrome remind me a lot of pushed TriX. But, as I said, subjective.Metering... keep in mind that current DSLRs while vastly improved over earlier models still do not have the latitude of good print film. Most importantly, there's no gentle tapering off at either end; highlights and shadows are just clipped once it hits a certain point. That said, the Pentax cameras have pretty darn good meters with a slight tendency to underexpose (probably to avoid clipping highlights). Center weighted, spot, and matrix metering are all available. To the best of my knowledge there are no significant changes in metering between the K10D and K20D.
snip
Established
Yes, the K20D uses a Samsung developed CMOS sensor while the K10D and other Pentax DSLRs use Sony CCD ones.
ISO performance... from what I have seen it has the edge over a K10D, which is pretty impressive considering it has quite a few more pixels. It's not a HUGE difference, but definitely noticeable at 1600. 3200 is OK depending on exposure/light, 6400 is for emergencies only.
Metering... keep in mind that current DSLRs while vastly improved over earlier models still do not have the latitude of good print film. Most importantly, there's no gentle tapering off at either end; highlights and shadows are just clipped once it hits a certain point. That said, the Pentax cameras have pretty darn good meters with a slight tendency to underexpose (probably to avoid clipping highlights). Center weighted, spot, and matrix metering are all available. To the best of my knowledge there are no significant changes in metering between the K10D and K20D.
This is very interesting, the K20D is hard to get for less than £600 where the K10D can easily be had for £250. question is if I would be that much happier with it, I don't really think so as I have real film cameras for taking real film pictures, and it is possible, in the case that I should capture a really nice picture in digital that I wanted to spend a lot of time making nice in PS to inject a film "feel" would you agree?
I still think that for me the K10D is the better buy, if I can get my hands on a 50/1.4 or one of those fabled 55/1.2's iso 800 should be more than enough with shake reduction and shooting at around f/1.8 or f/2. 1/15 at f/2 goes a long way with iso 800
And if I really wanted to shoot in low light I could break out my Nokton 1.4 on one of my Bessa bodies and push some Tri-X or Delta3200 up till it the hinges start coming off the meter
(handheld meter of course, the internal meter in the Bessa's only go to 1600)The quest is set I think, the negotiations for some of the canon gear has already started and I am bidding on some K10D's and watching out for K mount optics.
There is no longer any hope for my soul
//Jan
kshapero
South Florida Man
What is stop down metering?
cmedin
Well-known
It is when you actually stop down the lens (close the aperture) to meter. Modern cameras just meter wide open.
cmedin
Well-known
Well, yes and no. It's tempting to say "I'll just fix it in post" but one cannot entirely discount the source image. To me--and again, this being photography it's very subjective--the K20D just has a better "look" to it in many cases. It's pretty intangible and may entirely be my imagination, but I'll run with whatever works for me.
The K10D is a very fine camera and I don't doubt you'd be very happy with one. I just happen to like the K20D better.
The 50/1.4 Super Taks are killer for low light and can be had for pretty cheap (I just sold a mint one for $55). The 55/1.8 is also really good and not much slower.snip
Established
Well, yes and no. It's tempting to say "I'll just fix it in post" but one cannot entirely discount the source image. To me--and again, this being photography it's very subjective--the K20D just has a better "look" to it in many cases. It's pretty intangible and may entirely be my imagination, but I'll run with whatever works for me.
I agree, I made the statement based on the fact that I won't be making prints for anything but sending to family members who couldn't tell a piece of fine art from a polaroid very often so for the rare occasion where I did make a digital capture that I felt the need to do something special with most of it could be done in post. I just can't justify the extra cost, sure maybe down the line I will change over if opportunity presents itself, this goes against what I would normally do and buy the best I could afford but I think that is the bottom line of this whole operation, I am going backwards here.
Why on earth did you sell it?The K10D is a very fine camera and I don't doubt you'd be very happy with one. I just happen to like the K20D better.
I've got my eye on this PORST thing, it's 55/1.2 anyone have any experience with that?
Also, how much better are Super Taks than SMC-M's or SMC-A's ? Or are they in fact the same? I'm a little confused here. I seem to believe that Tak's are all M42
//Jan
benlees
Well-known
I am pretty sure the early Pentax 50/1.4's (Takumar, Super Takumar, SMC Takumars, SMC K,M, and A) are optically very similar. Some of the early Taks (before smc) have yellowed glass due to radioactivity of the type of materials used. My Super Tak is like this but the effect is subtle- and makes them cheap! The SMC A 50/1.4 is most expensive of the older lenses as it has contacts the later cameras can read.
If you like the 50mm fov then Pentax made very good 35/2's. I believe the later FA is highly regarded.
If you like the 50mm fov then Pentax made very good 35/2's. I believe the later FA is highly regarded.