sfb_dot_com
Well-known
Wow! obviously lots of people interested in this subject. Despite the majority of people having broadly negative experiences, there are also some positives out there. It seems that how things are organised is the key. Unfortunately, my club belongs to the strict hierarchical model, which I find stifling. Did I mention the 'tea-boys' who are a group of mainly elderly men who make the drinks at the interval. In many ways they are the anarchic anti-group of the club. You should hear some of the whispered comments passed round in the dark at the back of the hall we meet in!
Oops! I've just realised it's club night, and I'm supposed to bring work for KF3, that's worms eye/birds eye view. Well I happen to have a picture I took with a Bessa L & Heliar 12mm looking upwards that should fit the bill nicely. Otherwise I'm struggling a bit as my printer is on strike, and the print section does seem to take precedence. I well remember the Chairman taking a print I had brought along for critiquing and shaking it backwards and forwards to demonstrate it's wobbliness to the group.
Oh well. I'll go I suppose
Andy
Oops! I've just realised it's club night, and I'm supposed to bring work for KF3, that's worms eye/birds eye view. Well I happen to have a picture I took with a Bessa L & Heliar 12mm looking upwards that should fit the bill nicely. Otherwise I'm struggling a bit as my printer is on strike, and the print section does seem to take precedence. I well remember the Chairman taking a print I had brought along for critiquing and shaking it backwards and forwards to demonstrate it's wobbliness to the group.
Oh well. I'll go I suppose
Andy
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
I've attended the local camera club a handful of times over the last two decades, as a visitor, and afterward I keep reminding myself why I don't become a member.
The central activity of this club seems to be an ongoing photo-competition. This competition is so central to the culture of this group that the central feature of their newsletter is posting results of winners from past contests. They have a points system which tracks each participant's winnings from each monthly contest, and at the end of the year announce a yearly contest winner. This sounds like NASCAR racing, not photography.
I'm not a competitive person when it comes to issues of aesthetics; I'd rather enjoy being with a group of people who want to participate in a lively discussion on issues of photography, rather than "judging" photographs on a points-based system, which I feel is entirely impossible to do in reality; how do you apply points to aesthetic concerns?
There's also the usual unnaturally fetish-like emphasis on the use of image processing via software, ignoring completely the traditional photography crafts.
What would appeal more to me would be a group of photo enthusiasts who would be just as happy to discuss homemade pinhole cameras and darkroom techniques, rather than photography as a series of consumer purchases.
And, eschewing the usual camera club activities, I'd rather just meet up with a few folks and do a photo-safari; street shooting one time, then landscape the next. Then bring actual prints to the next meet-up, at a restaurant or bar, and enjoy eats and fellowship.
~Joe
The central activity of this club seems to be an ongoing photo-competition. This competition is so central to the culture of this group that the central feature of their newsletter is posting results of winners from past contests. They have a points system which tracks each participant's winnings from each monthly contest, and at the end of the year announce a yearly contest winner. This sounds like NASCAR racing, not photography.
I'm not a competitive person when it comes to issues of aesthetics; I'd rather enjoy being with a group of people who want to participate in a lively discussion on issues of photography, rather than "judging" photographs on a points-based system, which I feel is entirely impossible to do in reality; how do you apply points to aesthetic concerns?
There's also the usual unnaturally fetish-like emphasis on the use of image processing via software, ignoring completely the traditional photography crafts.
What would appeal more to me would be a group of photo enthusiasts who would be just as happy to discuss homemade pinhole cameras and darkroom techniques, rather than photography as a series of consumer purchases.
And, eschewing the usual camera club activities, I'd rather just meet up with a few folks and do a photo-safari; street shooting one time, then landscape the next. Then bring actual prints to the next meet-up, at a restaurant or bar, and enjoy eats and fellowship.
~Joe
Jacquelynn
Newbie
Both Sides
Both Sides
I'm new to Rangefinder forums (thanks Bill!) and wanted to weigh in because I feel very strongly about the topic!
As Bill indicated, he (and I) had a really good experience in the photography club we belonged to in NC (www.gapc.us). While we've both since moved on (but look! we're still friends!) I believe that participation in that club, and other clubs I've belonged to since, have helped me become the photographer I am today. I think it's all about perspective and expectations.
I move around a lot, courtesy of my husband's job, and so I have the opportunity to comment on and compare photography clubs from different regions of the US. I've been to many and while I can certainly attest to frustrations similar to those quoted here, I can tell you that my determination to learn and network in a field I was passionate about kept me involved, despite any early misgivings. Instead of lingering on the negative, I went in with an open mind and an idea of "what can I learn from these people" rather than "what can I teach them" and it's made all the difference.
In fact, the last club I belonged to (in Ohio - www.tripodcamerclub.com) was mostly composed of older men who were retired, had money to spare, and competed ferociously with their prints (not like me at all). And at first I was so intimidated and put-off (seriously??), but I hung in there and ended up learning so much - about how to create a black and white print with expertise, about how to critique and judge fine art prints, about how to do amazing post processing techniques, etc. And then I volunteered to be part of their board so that I could help address the problems I saw and be part of the solution rather than silently griping about them.
So my point is that while these kinds of organizations can breed stuffiness and include people who just want to compare equipment, my personal experience is that they can be, and more often are, an opportunity for learning and growth if you keep an open mind.
Both Sides
I'm new to Rangefinder forums (thanks Bill!) and wanted to weigh in because I feel very strongly about the topic!
As Bill indicated, he (and I) had a really good experience in the photography club we belonged to in NC (www.gapc.us). While we've both since moved on (but look! we're still friends!) I believe that participation in that club, and other clubs I've belonged to since, have helped me become the photographer I am today. I think it's all about perspective and expectations.
I move around a lot, courtesy of my husband's job, and so I have the opportunity to comment on and compare photography clubs from different regions of the US. I've been to many and while I can certainly attest to frustrations similar to those quoted here, I can tell you that my determination to learn and network in a field I was passionate about kept me involved, despite any early misgivings. Instead of lingering on the negative, I went in with an open mind and an idea of "what can I learn from these people" rather than "what can I teach them" and it's made all the difference.
In fact, the last club I belonged to (in Ohio - www.tripodcamerclub.com) was mostly composed of older men who were retired, had money to spare, and competed ferociously with their prints (not like me at all). And at first I was so intimidated and put-off (seriously??), but I hung in there and ended up learning so much - about how to create a black and white print with expertise, about how to critique and judge fine art prints, about how to do amazing post processing techniques, etc. And then I volunteered to be part of their board so that I could help address the problems I saw and be part of the solution rather than silently griping about them.
So my point is that while these kinds of organizations can breed stuffiness and include people who just want to compare equipment, my personal experience is that they can be, and more often are, an opportunity for learning and growth if you keep an open mind.
Michael Markey
Veteran
The first post describes the clubs in the UK. Add to that they are fanatical about digital to the point of abuse if you "still"use film. The competion structure has all but elminated film anyway.
The emphasis is on pleasing pictures which are often composites put together in photoshop.
Judges seem to like those.
For prints the colour of the mountboard is afforded as much if not more importance than the picture.
I got a real shock when I first attended a meeting `cause I expected it to be on the lines of what we tend to discuss here.
Not so.
We seem to be on a different planet.
Thank god for that.
I`m still trying to dev film ! How pathectic is that .
The emphasis is on pleasing pictures which are often composites put together in photoshop.
Judges seem to like those.
For prints the colour of the mountboard is afforded as much if not more importance than the picture.
I got a real shock when I first attended a meeting `cause I expected it to be on the lines of what we tend to discuss here.
Not so.
We seem to be on a different planet.
Thank god for that.
I`m still trying to dev film ! How pathectic is that .
maddoc
... likes film again.
I am a member of a local photo-club since a couple of years. Since I am the only foreigner in that club and don`t understand everything about the formal things the other members talk about it is quite relaxing for me. Once a year we have a photo-exhibition in Sapporo with up to 20 members presenting their work and it always an interesting get together and talking.
Amongst the members are total beginners with some P&S cameras as well as some professional photographer who make their living out of photography. Some use digital and some film, some have a DSLR, some a Leica, some a Hasslblad, and some a toy-camera. Once a month there is a small meeting where photos can be presented and will be judged by the crowd. Everybody presenting is then asked to give a short statement about his photo being selected as best. Additionally everybody is encouraged to submit his printed photo of choice to a professor for photography in Tokyo who takes his time and gives some remarks to the submitted photos and his remarks are recorded voice memos so that we all can see the discussed photos and his remarks.
All in all a very nice group.
Cheers,
Gabor
... Jacquelynn, welcome to the RFF !
Amongst the members are total beginners with some P&S cameras as well as some professional photographer who make their living out of photography. Some use digital and some film, some have a DSLR, some a Leica, some a Hasslblad, and some a toy-camera. Once a month there is a small meeting where photos can be presented and will be judged by the crowd. Everybody presenting is then asked to give a short statement about his photo being selected as best. Additionally everybody is encouraged to submit his printed photo of choice to a professor for photography in Tokyo who takes his time and gives some remarks to the submitted photos and his remarks are recorded voice memos so that we all can see the discussed photos and his remarks.
All in all a very nice group.
Cheers,
Gabor
... Jacquelynn, welcome to the RFF !
tanel
Established
I would also like to add a positive experience.
I joined my local photography club about 5 months ago and it is quite the opposite to what I read here. - Almost everyone uses film and most of the members are female.
80% of the time we use darkroom and 20% of the time we have guests, watch the work of our members or go out to shoot. We get together once a week and it's been a lot of fun so far. Many great persons and many great photographers. Besides of using darkroom we can get Tri-X half the price than on stores here. So, I can only say good things about that.
But I am only one who are into rangefinders there. Well, I'm probably the only one interested in RF in my area. Not many people are using rangefinder here these days. Most people are into dslr's and nature or 6x6.
I joined my local photography club about 5 months ago and it is quite the opposite to what I read here. - Almost everyone uses film and most of the members are female.
80% of the time we use darkroom and 20% of the time we have guests, watch the work of our members or go out to shoot. We get together once a week and it's been a lot of fun so far. Many great persons and many great photographers. Besides of using darkroom we can get Tri-X half the price than on stores here. So, I can only say good things about that.
But I am only one who are into rangefinders there. Well, I'm probably the only one interested in RF in my area. Not many people are using rangefinder here these days. Most people are into dslr's and nature or 6x6.
RichC
Well-known
I belong to the Brighton & Hove Camera Club on England's south coast, and cannot praise it highly enough. (See http://www.bhcc-online.org)
I joined three years ago, rather reticently - I was expecting half a dozen pipe-smoking old men in tweed jackets waxing lyrical over boring black and white photos of the Lake District! Luckily, it wasn't like that, and I was pleasantly surprised.
The club's focus is helping members achieve their potential and goals, whatever they may be. And it welcomes all photographers whatever their interests. Yes, there are a few tweedy men, but there are also students with piercings in their 20s, pro photographers and a significant number of women. The club's proved so popular, that we've had to cap the membership at 150!
Most members are interested in traditional, middle-of-the-road images - but that's hardly the fault of the club: it only reflects what the majority of photographers are into (you only have to look at the monthly photo mags to confirm this!). However, the club encourages all types of photography - I'm hardly "traditional", neither my photography nor my camera (Leica M8):
And not all our guest speakers are traditional either - "Miss Aniela" (http://www.missaniela.com), one of the UK's rising stars, gave a talk recently on her photography, the impact of social media (e.g. Facebook, Flickr) on photography, and the role of the female in photography.
"Anxiety" by Miss Aniela:
The club also contributes to the Brighton Photo Fringe (http://www.photofringe.org), which tends to focus on contemporary fine-art photography.
Not all camera clubs are dry, boring and hide-bound!
I can honestly say that without the encouragement of my local club, I wouldn't have achieved either my ARPS qualification from the Royal Photographic Society nor been signed up by a photo agency.
Also, I have met some people at the club who have become very good friends.
So, it can be worthwhile checking out your local club...
I joined three years ago, rather reticently - I was expecting half a dozen pipe-smoking old men in tweed jackets waxing lyrical over boring black and white photos of the Lake District! Luckily, it wasn't like that, and I was pleasantly surprised.
The club's focus is helping members achieve their potential and goals, whatever they may be. And it welcomes all photographers whatever their interests. Yes, there are a few tweedy men, but there are also students with piercings in their 20s, pro photographers and a significant number of women. The club's proved so popular, that we've had to cap the membership at 150!
Most members are interested in traditional, middle-of-the-road images - but that's hardly the fault of the club: it only reflects what the majority of photographers are into (you only have to look at the monthly photo mags to confirm this!). However, the club encourages all types of photography - I'm hardly "traditional", neither my photography nor my camera (Leica M8):
And not all our guest speakers are traditional either - "Miss Aniela" (http://www.missaniela.com), one of the UK's rising stars, gave a talk recently on her photography, the impact of social media (e.g. Facebook, Flickr) on photography, and the role of the female in photography.
"Anxiety" by Miss Aniela:
The club also contributes to the Brighton Photo Fringe (http://www.photofringe.org), which tends to focus on contemporary fine-art photography.
Not all camera clubs are dry, boring and hide-bound!
I can honestly say that without the encouragement of my local club, I wouldn't have achieved either my ARPS qualification from the Royal Photographic Society nor been signed up by a photo agency.
Also, I have met some people at the club who have become very good friends.
So, it can be worthwhile checking out your local club...
250swb
Well-known
Miss Aniela is an excellent example of a woman working the amateur circuit, dealing with 'womens issues', but still realising that the model needs to show her knickers for the photographer to be accepted in the society she keeps.
She's not stupid to be doing the manipulation if it earns her a crust, but it kind of highlights the total lack of intellectual rigor in the amateur club when its accepted as 'art'.
Steve
She's not stupid to be doing the manipulation if it earns her a crust, but it kind of highlights the total lack of intellectual rigor in the amateur club when its accepted as 'art'.
Steve
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Sparrow
Veteran
That seems a little harsh, but then, I imagine she feels threatened by your work
RichC
Well-known
Actually, she doesn't "work the amateur circuit" - she made an exception for us, since she was asked by some of our younger female members.
Despite being only in her 20s, she's become so successful that she now derives her entire income from fine-art photography and commissions from companies and individuals... as well as being sponsored by Microsoft.
So, yeah, she's showing her knickers - obviously a rubbish photo and can't be art!
Man Ray's nudes aren't art, nor Mapplethorpe's , nor Newton...Did you consider that there may be good reasons why she often uses herself as her own model? She spoke of empowerment, owning her image and irony
And she does darker self-images. This was taken in an abandoned hospital. "Scuttled": http://www.missaniela.com/index.php#mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=2&p=2&a=0&at=0 ... yet another rubbish photo!
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Andy Kibber
Well-known
Steve's comment is snarky, I agree, but there's a ring of truth to it.
As for camera clubs, I never touch the stuff myself! I almost made it to a Flickr meet-up a couple of times though.
As for camera clubs, I never touch the stuff myself! I almost made it to a Flickr meet-up a couple of times though.
250swb
Well-known
Wakey wakey, its not 'fine art photography' Rich, its made to appeal to the masses in as an uncomplicated way as possible. They are cute images, they are not 'art'. This stuff is the digital photography equivalent of Vladimir Tretchikoff's 'Green Lady'.
Steve
Steve
Sparrow
Veteran
Steve's comment is snarky, I agree, but there's a ring of truth to it.
As for camera clubs, I never touch the stuff myself! I almost made it to a Flickr meet-up a couple of times though.
Yep agreed, it’s a bit commercial and a little formulaic, but then she’s only 23 and is already supporting herself by her art, fine or otherwise. She has a long way to go and I’d argue she has made a good start.
I had the poor experiences of camera clubs too, a few loudmouths with expensive gear, intent on imposing their imperfect understanding of art and aesthetics on the rest of the membership. I attended twice and haven’t bothered since (less bloodshed that way), however the Brighton one looks better
sig
Well-known
That is why RFF is such a nice place. No loudmouths with expensive gear, only very supportive people who are not interested in gear at all.....
And as for female photographers.... If it is no law against it there should be one.
blindlemon
Member
I've only just found this thread and would like, if I may, to reflect on the opening post by Roger Hicks. His experience sounds all too familiar to me. I started a club in my home town many years ago, it went very well until it started to joint the local club alliances and federations etc. and had to bend to their rules and ways of thinking with endless bloody competitions and slide battles. The only advice ever given to me to improve my photography was that when submitting slides or photos for competition , instead of saying I had used my Olympus OM 2 on the entry form, I should instead, say that I had used a Nikon or Leica and my marks would increase, on average, by 10%.
I became so disillusioned that I not only left the club but didn't pick a camera up for 25 years.
I'm wondering, if Rogers club in West Cornwall by any chance, if so it seems that very little has changed in nearly 30 years.
I became so disillusioned that I not only left the club but didn't pick a camera up for 25 years.
I'm wondering, if Rogers club in West Cornwall by any chance, if so it seems that very little has changed in nearly 30 years.
Sparrow
Veteran
and there was me thinking they just stuck the buggers in a photocopier … the Rembrandt’s that is
Sparrow
Veteran
ya see I always thought the term “fine art” was sort of a derogatory term coined by the Arts and Crafts chaps to describe the early Modernists … or an elitists term invented by Modernists lot to support their egos, so you see one learns something every day … it’s just about money
Andy Kibber
Well-known
Yep, I harbour no ill will toward her. If she enjoys what she's doing and can make a buck at it, I wish her all the best. She's certainly not hurting anyone.
There's plenty of photography out there that I don't care for (for one reason or another). It's easy enough to ignore.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Sparrow;1268018 I had the poor experiences of camera clubs too said:...obviously your tolerance and patience have increased substantially of late - Stewart!
Chris101
summicronia
Fine Art - as in the sentence, "That is some really fine art." Yeah, naked ladies help.