Camera for 10 yo grand-daughter, under $200

[DNG]

another thread was started....???
maybe a mod can merge them together

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148983

 

[pagpow]

Thanks all for your replies, mfogiel, lynnb, nongfuspring, CK Dexter Haven, johannielscom, Dwig, Addy 101.

Agreed, I have started engaging her in questions of her interest and likely use.

Yes, he replies guiltily, I am looking at digital. She cannot handle the operating costs of film.

Indeed, I was looking at a few-generations-old DSLR. Hadn't followed the used market for the Pens and the Sonys -- will look into them. Thanks.

I agree that the small sensor cameras don't teach issues of DoF, but it seems to me that there is a bit of tension between cameras that do teach that and cameras that she would have with her all the time, as Dwig mentions. That was one reason about my sense that a DSLR might not be the best way to grant her wish.

MFogiel -- can you give me an example of what you mean by "compact cameras made for outdoor sports?"

Thanks again.

Giorgio

 

[jsrockit]

Thread merged...

 

[harpofreely]

The older Canons - 20D through t2i - offer great performance for the dollar, if you come across one before an equivalent Nikon.

I'd chime in on the side of DSLR instead of compact / mirrorless, for a young beginner - in addition to the better depth of field control, there is simply less potential frustration in the DSLR's likely better autofocus / shutter lag speed.

I had a similar situation picking out a used crop-sensor DSLR for my mom a few months ago. As a grandma with no interest in photography per se, her primary shooting goal was good grandkids pics. But, as that often entailed fast-moving subjects in poor light, her succession of compacts all had the same slow lens & shutter lag issues. A $120 Canon 20D took care of that.

The trick that busts your budget is getting any fast lens, other than the Canon 50 1.8, if you need something faster than a kit zoom (the 50 1.8 being a little long on a crop body)

 

[pagpow]

Hi Dave and DNG --

Just now realized there were two threads. Must have hit Post a second time when I did not see my article posted. My bad. I second the motion for merger with apologies for the inconvenience.

Thanks for all your replies, FrankS, dave lackey, Bille, filmtwit, daveleo, lone mantis, DNG, Bingley, BillBingham 2, Robert Budding, dave lackey, and DNG.

Yup, I agree with the notion of asking her and also possibly duplicating what she used in class. I'm working on that; it is requiring a bit of sleuthing and prompting.

I would love to give her a film cam, and could do that from loaners from my stash Canon FDs and Oly OMs, but don't think she can handle the operating costs or put up with the delayed gratification, yet.

Appreciate the confirmation that an older Nikon or Canon falls into the price range. I do have family that falls into the Nikon camp, but immediate family falls into Canon tribe so am more familiar with that.

Was unaware that some of the mirror less or ilc fell into the price range -- I'll check them out, as I am not convinced that even a compact DSLR facilitates incorporation of photography into her everyday life the way a smaller form factor would.

Appreciate the advice and keep it coming.

Giorgio

 

[pagpow]

Thread merged...

Many thanks, jsrockit, sir!

 

[pagpow]

Harpofreely -- yes, I've been trying to wade through the generations and lines of the Canon, focusing on the difference between the XXD and the Rebel series. It does look like I can reach a 20D, possibly a 30D, and a Rebel XS. The tradeoff seems to be better build quality and performance on the 20D side, vs lower weight and more features on the Rebel side.

Both sides of that seem to have advantages in her case -- more solid build given likely care, lower weight making it more likely that she will carry it everywhere.

Giorgio

 

[Dwig]

...can you give me an example of what you mean by "compact cameras made for outdoor sports?"
...

Olympus TG series
Panasonic TS30 and similar
Ricoh (nee Pentax) WG series

 

[AlexBG]

Olympus e-p3, the touchscreen functions will be what she is used to I assume, great, cheap future lens options, great for video as well. They are a good size and weight. My two year old tortured mine and it's still going.

 

[dfatty]

I would look at these compact cameras that are made for outdoor sports, and persuade her to use it everywhere. Might be more practical than a DSLR and cheaper. Explain that she needs to document what she is interested in before worrying about cameras. Also, composing on the back screen helps develop compositional skills.

i'm probably underestimating the skill and/or commitment of a 10 year old, but i'd be inclined towards this as well. just something they will carry everywhere, that is waterproof and perhaps shock proof. maybe something like this sony: http://tinyurl.com/p5c97os

at this age, i'd probably be more after something that they will carry around all the time, which will encourage them to shoot and gain compositional skills. imho something with a touchscreen will also help with composition.

otoh, as mentioned old canon dslrs are very good and can be had for the price range, like the old canon rebel xti model. or maybe something a little more modern, like the nikon v1, which is smaller and more likely to be carried around. it has a small sensor but is very capable.

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

I agree that the small sensor cameras don't teach issues of DoF, but it seems to me that there is a bit of tension between cameras that do teach that and cameras that she would have with her all the time, as Dwig mentions. That was one reason about my sense that a DSLR might not be the best way to grant her wish.

Giorgio

I wouldn't assume that a 'little girl' would have the same issues with carrying a DSLR "everywhere" as a dude might. They already carry purses/handbags. And, since she's in school, likely a backpack of some sort. There are lots of very young girls on flickr and such who carry dslrs everywhere and do very nice work. There's a young lady named Olivia Bee, for example, who started as a young teen, and now she's shooting campaigns and just barely 20.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/02/rapid-rise-of-photographer-olivia-bee.html

 

[back alley]

i see a nikon d40 with kit lens for sale locally at $125. cdn...
i carried a canon sd780 for a few months...so very small, could fit in my jeans coin pocket...having that kind of portability and ability to always have it on me was pretty wonderful.

 

[DNG]

Thread merged...

thank you...🙂

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

...and get her a film camera while you're at it! You can get a Pentax ME Super and a 50/1.7 for like $50. Crazy days.

 

[Bingley]

...and get her a film camera while you're at it! You can get a Pentax ME Super and a 50/1.7 for like $50. Crazy days.

Yup. I got an ME Super for under 50 on KEH.

But for digital, I would recommend an Olympus E-PL1 (m4/3) with a prime lens like the Pany 20/1.7. The camera is small (roughly the size of a Leica CL)
and can produce lovely images. You can control depth of field. Not fast in the autofocus department, but a nice inage maker nevertheless. Probably dirt cheap these days.

 

[BillBingham2]

Pick up a bright line finder and that looks like an interesting option. Not sure about the amount of manual control.

B2

 

[Rob-F]

Gee, i had a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye around that age. A 10y/o gets a DSLR now? I started shooting with my dad's Leica II (D) at age 14.

 

[pagpow]

Me, too, I still have the bakelite Kodak Holiday Flash camera from that age. Maybe I should give her that. It has no shutter lag.

 

[pagpow]

Looks like the generous outpouring of help and advice has subsided. Many thanks.

Summarizing to make sure I didn’t miss something important and to give future gifters a simple summary w/o having to read though the whole thread.

First. Consider talking to the young lady about her experience and specific interests.
Doing that. But the conversations are not proving as fruitful as they might be.

Second. Confirmation that DSLRs from several model generations back are likeliest to hit the budget and provide building advantages. In the Canon tribe, fingers point to the D10, D20, with a possible reach to the D30, or to the lighter Rebel series, around the XSi, XTi. In the Nikon tribe, a lot of fingers pointed at the D40/D40x/D60 and the D3100. Pentax and Sony also sneaking in here. I’m pointing Canon simply because extended family in area has Canons that can be lent in future.

Third. Used Oly Pen series, particularly the E-P1 or E-PL1, as most likely available in, or very close, to the budget horizon. After this, regardless of what I do for her, I’m considering getting one for myself.

Fourth. One of a set of Tough cameras: Oly TG series, Panasonic TS30 and similar, Ricoh WG series. This genre of cameras had completely escaped my notice and have much in their favor for likely abuse in everyday use.

Fifth. A number of other P&S or compacts – the SD 780 among them.

Sixth. Other mirrorless, ILCs, 4/3 etc, like Fuji xe1. Nikon v1, Sony nex3n, Sony nexc3. Attractive, but all above budget used – as of this date.

Seventh. Go film and prime lenses. No worries, not going there NOW because of the operational costs, financial and other, of film, but I have a closetful of Oly Oms and Canon FDs, bodies and lenses, ready to lend her if her interest grows.

Eighth. A lot of good advice regarding dominant features to consider in making a choice.

Miss anything?

If reading this in the future, consider that specific models and price ranges will change with time.

Thanks all.

Giorgio

 

[Dwig]

...

Third. Used Oly Pen series, particularly the E-P1 or E-PL1, as most likely available in, or very close, to the budget horizon. After this, regardless of what I do for her, I’m considering getting one for myself. ...

i'd expand this to include any/all micro4/3 models from both Olympus and Panasonic that fall into the "used, older generation" class and meet the price range. Consider the Pany G-1, G-2, & G-3 as they have eyelevel VFs and thus look and operate like a DSLR.

Otherwise, I'd say you've got it summarized well.