Tom Diaz
Well-known
Dear colleagues,
I've been looking for the ideal still camera for teaching photography to students aged 11 to 15. Either film or digital is OK.
I am blown away by how great the Flip Video camera is, for high quality images, simplicity of operation, and reasonable price. Is there an equivalent still camera, in any sense of "equivalent?"
In my casual surveys of inexpensive still cameras I have found lots of junky digital camera-toys that are overloaded with features and produce poor-quality images. I would like better quality images and less feature overload (e.g., I do not need or want a video option).
Film cameras would be OK but not too desirable. I am not eager to go the Holga or Diana route because I want to get quick results, and film developing is getting harder to manage and too expensive.
I want to be able to buy 10 or 15 cameras for (say) $500 or $1000 and get very fast results. I would like to teach composition and evaluation of pictures at a minimum and (preferably) exposure techniques.
What would you buy at $50 to $100 apiece if you were in my shoes?
Thanks,
Tom
I've been looking for the ideal still camera for teaching photography to students aged 11 to 15. Either film or digital is OK.
I am blown away by how great the Flip Video camera is, for high quality images, simplicity of operation, and reasonable price. Is there an equivalent still camera, in any sense of "equivalent?"
In my casual surveys of inexpensive still cameras I have found lots of junky digital camera-toys that are overloaded with features and produce poor-quality images. I would like better quality images and less feature overload (e.g., I do not need or want a video option).
Film cameras would be OK but not too desirable. I am not eager to go the Holga or Diana route because I want to get quick results, and film developing is getting harder to manage and too expensive.
I want to be able to buy 10 or 15 cameras for (say) $500 or $1000 and get very fast results. I would like to teach composition and evaluation of pictures at a minimum and (preferably) exposure techniques.
What would you buy at $50 to $100 apiece if you were in my shoes?
Thanks,
Tom
seifadiaz
Established
Hmmn.. For film, what I can think of are: Olympus OM, Pentax ME, Nikon FE2/FM2 but sourcing 15 bodies would be a challenge.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Pick the cheapest Canon Powershot (below $90) from B&H... Search and sort results by prices from low to high...
Enough for first year composition with a moderate wideangle and a moderate tele zoom. Image quality is not bad at all for small prints...
Cheers
Juan
Enough for first year composition with a moderate wideangle and a moderate tele zoom. Image quality is not bad at all for small prints...
Cheers
Juan
aizan
Veteran
there was a pdf about digital camera failure rates on TOP recently.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/two-mustdownload-pdfs.html
panasonic makes the most reliable digicams under $300. you could get a mix of FZ-series (superzoom mini-slr style), TZ-series (superzoom compacts), and FX-series (standard zoom ultra-compacts) used on ebay. they come in different colors, too.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/two-mustdownload-pdfs.html
panasonic makes the most reliable digicams under $300. you could get a mix of FZ-series (superzoom mini-slr style), TZ-series (superzoom compacts), and FX-series (standard zoom ultra-compacts) used on ebay. they come in different colors, too.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Tom,
My first and still close to my favorite digital camera was my Olympus D-100. Single focal length lens, simple controls, 2 AA batteries, 1.3 MP sensor. Nice LCD for it's time. You can get them used for around $10-20 max.
Check for old polaroid cameras that take the new fuji film. You might be able to get them for a song. Single shot, quick feedback.
Those are the best suggestions I can provide for now. Not a lot non-fancy cameras on the market these days. Interesting niche idea.
B2 (;->
My first and still close to my favorite digital camera was my Olympus D-100. Single focal length lens, simple controls, 2 AA batteries, 1.3 MP sensor. Nice LCD for it's time. You can get them used for around $10-20 max.
Check for old polaroid cameras that take the new fuji film. You might be able to get them for a song. Single shot, quick feedback.
Those are the best suggestions I can provide for now. Not a lot non-fancy cameras on the market these days. Interesting niche idea.
B2 (;->
robinsonphotography
Established
I'd say get a bunch of OMs and 50mm lenses, or maybe a lot of Olympus XAs?? Possibly do a whole series of cheap RFs, some Olympus XAs, some Yashica GSNs, a few old Ricohs, etc.
I would say to go on ebay, look for older canon or panasonic digital cameras and buy a bunch of different ones. Just watch the batteries... they might be dead or hold a very small charge. Or get some old Canon A series which take AA batteries.
Tom Diaz
Well-known
Pretty good suggestion. I'm looking into that.
Tom Diaz
Well-known
I must say, that's an interesting idea. Used to use a Polaroid back but had not even thought of it. The kids would like that. What's the best used Polaroid that has exposure settings (shutter speed and aperture)? If I used one of the newer all-automatic ones I'm thinking I might as well stay digital (which is still my inclination).
TD
Tom Diaz
Well-known
To me, the reason to go this route would be to get cheap 35s that had exposure controls. I suppose I could score a bunch of Fed 5s or something and just keep the ones that work. (I have one that works already.) What 35s are better than a Fed but not much more expensive?
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
The Olympus Stylus or Mjiu are dirt cheap. Nikkormats w/50mm f2.0 are also plentiful and cheap but 40 years old. The OM-1s need a criscam converter for the meter as the old battery is no longer available. The OM-2s are not cheap. (Years ago I had to teach a course in still photography and there was NO lab available...this was before digital...I had the class shoot slides. I worked out.)
Pablito
coco frío
I agree with Juan. Disposables are another option. When working with kids, CONTENT is the important thing; any camera can be made to work. But the instant feedback you get with digital is really valuable.
chris00nj
Young Luddite
I'm not sure how much you can teach with a point and shoot, beyond pointing and shooting.
Many won't have manual controls, so teaching exposure is out the window. The short focal length of digital P&S will eliminate any ability to teach about depth of field.
Many won't have manual controls, so teaching exposure is out the window. The short focal length of digital P&S will eliminate any ability to teach about depth of field.
Pablito
coco frío
You can teach a lot with a point and shoot. It's what you talk to the kids about that matters. Once they see photography as a means to explore the world around them, as a means of self-expression and as a way to validate their reality, they can do great stuff with any camera. Teaching them about exposure, depth of field, etc without first emphasizing content is usually a losing proposition resulting in mediocre pictures of little interest. In my opinion, of course, but based on more years of experience than I care to acknowledge....
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
With a digital point and shoot you can teach 99% of what matters in photography, and every photographer that's been relevant in photography history, could have made the same famed images with a digital point and shoot.
Beauty is not in the tool... Not even in the final print... Only in the content, lyricism and composition. And you don't lose a bit of those three with any kind of camera...
Cheers,
Juan
aizan
Veteran
if you want to teach students about exposure, it stands to reason that the cameras should have manual exposure.
the only polaroids that have manual exposure are the very expensive 180/185/190 packfilm models.
the only polaroids that have manual exposure are the very expensive 180/185/190 packfilm models.
xxloverxx
Shoot.
I guess I'm the only one who'll suggest any of the FSU cameras…get the ones without exposure meters. I know the Kiev 4a I got (with Jupiter 8) was 50 USD. You'll probably want to get an external finder for composition, which is about 30 USD.
80 USD total, you can get 10 of those for 800 USD.
80 USD total, you can get 10 of those for 800 USD.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
There have been some effective youth programs run here using a variety of 35mm SLR's that were donated by photographers who really didn't need to hang on to some of their older film stuff, but which had been kept in good condition. They were motivated by the opportunity to do something altruistic. The kids got old cameras that were "way cool" and worked, the educators got to work with a variety of hardware and the community showcased the work at the end of the program. Doesn't meet your criteria of instant feedback but the kids loved finding out how photographs were "really" made instead of like their mobile phone cameras did it. Just a thought.
newspaperguy
Well-known
Put me in the basket with Jaun and Pablito and others who maintain that photography is not about equipment or exposure, but about seeing... and of course, capturing.
My suggestion would be the cheapest digi you can find that has a viewfinder as well as a screen. As noted earlier, Canon Powershot series would be a good example.
A year ago my pocket camera, a PS A590 fell off a rapidly moving
truck (don't ask) onto pavement, and other than a few battle scars, continues to work perfectly. It is gentle on batteries too.
Any film camera is going to cost you a bundle in operational costs - film, process, prints or scan - figure $20 an outing for each camera. And what? One roll a week for each kid for the semester?
Digital, with rechargeable batteries, and assuming you view the images on your PC, costs you in effect, nothing after the initial outlay.
Just my $0.02.
My suggestion would be the cheapest digi you can find that has a viewfinder as well as a screen. As noted earlier, Canon Powershot series would be a good example.
A year ago my pocket camera, a PS A590 fell off a rapidly moving
truck (don't ask) onto pavement, and other than a few battle scars, continues to work perfectly. It is gentle on batteries too.
Any film camera is going to cost you a bundle in operational costs - film, process, prints or scan - figure $20 an outing for each camera. And what? One roll a week for each kid for the semester?
Digital, with rechargeable batteries, and assuming you view the images on your PC, costs you in effect, nothing after the initial outlay.
Just my $0.02.
Last edited:
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
The easy thing is to focus the course on composition and stuff like angles, camera shake, shutter delay etc. Meanwhile, when well into the course, if talking composition show your own shots (some with selective DOF) on a beamer. Some kid will ask about the OOF areas and tada! a whole new subject to cover.
I usually start out with a fixed ISO / ASA when explaining the principle and make them understand that doubled exposures need half apertures and vice versa. Then introduce ISO / ASA and compare it to a three-legged balance scale.
That's how I did it on several occasions, always works.
Best thing is to have a camera tethered to the laptop+beamer, so kids can figure out the selective focus from a single DSLR and the whole class can have a look at the shots straight after they were taken. That way, it's possible to cover the whole subject of DOF vs. OOF in a single hour and later on extend parts of the concept in subsequent lessons.
With this approach, starting kids off on simple digital P&S compacts is no problem.