Camera out of adjustment with lens by .0003 experts help?

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Phil_F_NM said:
Why don't you take the camera apart and find out where the .0003" discrepancy lies?
As was stated before, this is a measurement that is thinner than the emulsion itself. Your heartbeat will make your body move more than this. Your pupil dilating due to changes in light will slightly change your point of focus in your eye.
This is not anything to be worried about but if you think it is, go ahead and start filing away or building up the mount with solder then filing it away.
If you can make good photos with it right now, you shouldn't worry about it because if you got .0003" closer there is no possible way you would be able to tell the difference.

Phil Forrest
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you have to read the article not just the title of the post which I hastily and haphazardly typed. Im not concerned about my camera being off by .0003. My camera may or may not be off, I want to know what measurement they are talking about.
 
68degrees said:
... what I want to know is what exactly is out of adjutment, how can I tell if mine is out of adjustment and if it is out of adjustment how can I put mine back into adjustment without sending it to some exotic expensive lab someplace.
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OK...

Q1. Probably lens to film distance. Could also be the rangefinder is out of adjustment, but that would not be quoted in .000X mm.

Q2. Do a focus test

Q3. Google for an article about how to adjust infinity focus for your particular brand and model of camera. This isn't exotic; last one I had adjusted by a real camera technician cost $50.
 
68degrees said:
you have to read the article not just the title of the post which I hastily and haphazardly typed. Im not concerned about my camera being off by .0003. My camera may or may not be off, I want to know what measurement they are talking about.
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No, I understand perfectly. What measurement or tolerance they are talking about isn't in question, it's the fact that if your camera makes good photos, then it doesn't matter at all.

Phil Forrest
 
They were talking about focus accuracy. That's not something that you, or I, are capable of measuring to 4 decimal points and "dialing it in".

Something you can do, is place a yardstick at a 45 degree agle to the camera and focus at minimum distance with a RF camera and max aperture, to a point on the stick. Then inspect the neg scan or print to see where the camera actually focused.
 
.0003

.0003

68

When a camera is manufactured the lens is set on the body to achieve infinity focus when the lens says infinity .
This distance from where the lens is mounted to where the film is , is called flange to focal plane and should be the same for every Kodak signet made .
If the lens is not set properly it will be off by some degree , there is a tolerance , let us say plus or minus .002 that is considered normal .
Even if it is off , the camera will photograph well because it is within tolerance and meets the manufacturing specification .
In the article the .0003 camera is not only within spec but excels .
The other camera may be off considerably more , so it does not perform well
Not a real exact explanation .
Shoot with the signet wide open at close and far distance , check where you focused and what is in focus on the negative,.
 
ColSebastianMoran said:
OK...

Q1. Probably lens to film distance. Could also be the rangefinder is out of adjustment, but that would not be quoted in .000X mm.

Q2. Do a focus test

Q3. Google for an article about how to adjust infinity focus for your particular brand and model of camera. This isn't exotic; last one I had adjusted by a real camera technician cost $50.
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I know how to do those they are simple. When the article started talking about .0003 it didnt make sense that they were talking about that so I wondered what then are they talking about. Id still like to know what measurement they are checking that is measured in ten thousandths.
 
enasniearth said:
68

When a camera is manufactured the lens is set on the body to achieve infinity focus when the lens says infinity .
This distance from where the lens is mounted to where the film is , is called flange to focal plane and should be the same for every Kodak signet made .
If the lens is not set properly it will be off by some degree , there is a tolerance , let us say plus or minus .002 that is considered normal .
Even if it is off , the camera will photograph well because it is within tolerance and meets the manufacturing specification .
In the article the .0003 camera is not only within spec but excels .
The other camera may be off considerably more , so it does not perform well
Not a real exact explanation .
Shoot with the signet wide open at close and far distance , check where you focused and what is in focus on the negative,.
Click to expand...

Ok this is starting to make sense then. So it does have to do with how the lens is actually installed into the camera. But why is this critical when it can simply be adjusted by adjusting the rangefinder so it agrees with the imperfectly installed lens? The focus scale is also adjustable. So why then does it matter if a lens is installed to thousandths tolerances when the rangefinder and focus scale can be adjusted to agree with the actual focus of the lens.?
 
Are you really concerned about it though? I mean, if the camera makes good photos, be happy that it does so and move on.
As for the measurement, it's probably lens registration as was mentioned before.
All I'm saying is that if you like the photos from your camera then it's good. If you don't, the camera is still probably in excellent working order and adjustment.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Are you really concerned about it though? I mean, if the camera makes good photos, be happy that it does so and move on.
As for the measurement, it's probably lens registration as was mentioned before.
All I'm saying is that if you like the photos from your camera then it's good. If you don't, the camera is still probably in excellent working order and adjustment.

Phil Forrest
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The photos are nice but how do you know its all i can be? Ive seen sharper maybe its installed wrong. Maybe its installed right and when I take it apart to clean the bearings and old crud off the helicals I wont be able to put it back within such close tolerance because it needs to be installed in a lab with equipment that measures to thousandths of an inch. I just want to know before I take it apart. I didnt think it would be a problem until I read that article talking about such precision.
 
It's a 60 year old camera! What are you expecting, sharpness of a $7k 50/2 Apo Asph on an M9? Or maybe an IQ180 Phase with a macro, perhaps?

Please--don't take it apart. As I stated earlier, no professional shops can measure to that level.

Do you shoot every photo on a tripod with a cable release? If not then just shoot some film and post some pics. Have a beer.
 
Then sell the stupid thing. You're just going to wreck it anyway, then come running back here for more help.

PF
 
Considering that it's a Signet 35, putting any work into it isn't worth it. They were decent cameras when new but not Leicas, Nikons, Contaxes or Voigtlanders. If it were a collector camera or one with an amazing fixed lens, then maybe (they are out there) but your Signet is probably one of the many that still works decently, still takes decent photos and uses film that is readily available. That's a reason to be glad and just to enjoy shooting it until it dies then move on to another one for less than $50.

If you just want to gain experience in working on cameras, the Signet is a good exercise in frustration as well.

There is an adage in photo gear use that some of the worst condition cameras and lenses are the ones owned by obsessive folks who clean everything. They wind up putting fine marks in already fragile single coatings, scratching lenses, messing up helicoids or helicoid lubrication, putting tool marks on lens and body or just ruining an otherwise perfectly fine piece of gear out of a desire to clean it or make it do something today that it didn't even do half a century ago.

Phil Forrest
 
yaya. I know your type. Just throw money at it. Dont actually know how to do anything or explain anything so, just throw it away and buy new high dollar equipment. old = garbage etc etc...ad nauseum blah blah. Its got to say Leica on it or its garbage. Ya heard it all before. If you dont know the answer and arent interested in the topic then kindly dont post. I dont come here to read your and your kinds personal and critical negative responses denigrating others who are interested in old cameras and understanding their construction and optics. Go back to the country club and have another expensive drink and look down your long nose at everyone who doesnt wrap their identity up in their epensive possessions. Kindly dont post in my threads if you have nothing useful or intelligent to say about the topic. Thanks.
 
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