CameraGAS Name Change?

[Tuolumne]

Stephen,
Just a few comments on your points above:

"CameraGAS is better than Ebay in certain ways .. or least I think so

1) A much lower standard ad or auction price with NO final sales fees
2) No extra fees for longer than 7 day ads or auctions (up to 21 days) , or reserve auctions, classified ads, or stores. In fact, no extra fees at all.
3) Free communication between buyer and seller encouraged with no restrictions
4) Better than Ebay photographic categories "

1) I don't sell on eBay, just buy there. So how much lower are you? And BTW, if there is no liquidity on the site, your fees can be $zero and it won't matter. If I can't reliably sell an item there within my time frame the fees are irrelevant. All this goes back to the issue of creating liquidity which is a very hard thing to do.

2) See #1 above

3) I have never had a problem communicating with sellers on eBay. It's not clear what this advantage amounts to.

4) Surely you jest. I've never had a problem with eBay photo categories, so what does "better" mean?

I think you had something going here with the classifieds. I would build on that. Perhaps mirror the classifieds here and use that as a base to build out a larger classified/auction system. The thing about this site is that you use a social network around a camera interest to aggregate people who naturally buy and sell cameras. That is hard to replicate in other categories, notably your SLR site (whose name I can't even remember, although I use SLRs alot, too).

I think you'd be better off positioning it as something of a Craig's List for cameras. Perhaps you should just call it Stephen's List. It should then be a go-to site for everything camera related - models, nude models, event photography, fine arts, producs to buy and sell, etc. Try to combine the best of RFF and Craig's list into one.

/T

 

[kshapero]

I, for one, am happy with the classifieds in RFF. One stop shopping. Usually people I have posted with. feels safe ( I know, it is just a feeling). nuf said.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

I agree about the user community here.

If I was buying I'd be very happy to buy from one of the regulars here who posts in various threads and uploads to the gallery.

I don't think I'd buy from somebody who arrived yesterday and the first thing they did was to advertise a camera for sale.

There's trust in this community, and it's going to be hard work getting trust into CameraGas in the same way.

 

[pesphoto]

I feel the same as Jon about this. There is a nice feeling of community here and I wouldnt hesitate to buy from those who post routinely.
I Will not buy from Ebay anymore after being burned too often with cameras.

 

[TEZillman]

Some random thoughts ...

I thought the name was poorly chosen the first time I saw it. A new name should be chosen with the intended market in mind, but I don't see a specific market niche that is identified on the site. "Photography enthusists" are probably too general of a target.

I enjoy both photography and cameras. I wouldn't call myself a collector because I don't buy to collect, I buy to try out. Many cameras that I try out I don't care for and am willing to re-sell a few months later. There are a number of seller types that I don't want to deal with. People who pick up a camera at an estate sale and throw it up on e*bay to make a quick profit are at the top of the list. I don't want to deal with someone who doesn't know what it is that they're selling. I don't wish to spend my time addressing problems after a sale.

I've also sold a number of cameras and various equipment on e*bay and if you take the value of your time into consideration, if you do a good job of it, you have a significant amount invested by the time that you've listed an item. There's a reason that the e*bay drop off stores (a business model that makes no sense to me) have a minimum expected selling price of around $75. It's not worth the time otherwise. Of course if you sell something for $1000+ you have to worry about the buyer trying to rip you off.

I've probably have had someone try just about every conceivable rip off on me. Again, I just don't have the time for it and believe that if something sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

I can take a box of camera equipment to a camera shop that sells used equipment or to a camera broker and get a low ball price for it. I don't need to go through the hassle of posting something to a website to achieve the same result.

A business model that I'd like to see is a photography equipment seller who provides a new or working and relatively well cared used product at a market price with a buy back price guaranteed for six months. Frankly I rather doubt that there's a business model around selling used camera equipment that would work anymore at all as the market is flooded with used film gear and two year old digital equipment is worth pennies on the dollar.

I think the best approach to buying and selling for me is in the use of a classified ad here on RRF or on another photo site where you're buying from or selling to a person who's most likely selling gear to make way for something else or buying something to try just for the fun of it. A business model that attempts to bring all of the used equipment together from a number of sites might be a workable niche. I've often seen the same equipment on a number of sites at the same time.

I hope these thoughts help

Tom

 

[David Murphy]

yes, definitely interesting. this thread seems to have hit a nerve with excellent discussions the result.

Stephen

OK, sorry I'm in Asia travelling right now so I've just gotten around to following this up. I think most of the other members have now hit on the main points about CameraGas that have troubled me, but here are my remarks:

1) The policies of the site seems to be sort of a dream set-up for buyers, but not for sellers (at least when it initially went online). As already pointed out auction formats require a lot of liquidity to work. This is going to discourage anyone from listing items at a low starting prices since the chance of them ending at a low starting price due to lack of bidders is high. So if items start at high prices, or reserves are in place, this makes it unattractive to buyers. The whole affair then gets too expensive for buyers and sellers. A fixed priced format, just like the RFF Classifieds is far and away prefereable. Auctions might be considered in the future if the site really gets some traction, which is possible. My main point here is: DON'T FORGET THE SELLERS and their needs!! 🙂 Lots of sellers, big and small, are needed to make this work!

2) The initial price for ads (now a suggested future price for ads of $5) is rather high and not even competitive with eBay for many types of listings. It is also not competitive with the RFF Classified rates.

3) The requirement that sellers must back everything up with a no questions asked sort of return policy is great for buyers, but can be a real turnoff for sellers. Remember the seller is not always the bad guy in transactions-gone-bad: there is a very common type of buyer that likes to really cherry pick collectibles. I've even heard of dishonorable collectors who buy rare cameras and lenses for the purpose of removing small parts and then returning them for refunds. My point is that return policies should be left up to negotiation between the buyers and sellers, or perhaps there could be two categories of ads. One that is sort of a premium full warrantied item, and one that is more freewheeling.

4) The initial policies required all payment to be by PayPal or credit cards. Now I see that USPS Money Orders are allowed, which is a good step forward. PayPal is good for buyers, but not always for sellers. A lot of people don't realize that PayPal "Buyer Protection" works by making sellers pay for it. Under PayPal rules the seller is usually held accountable for any loses no matter how they occur, even buyer fraud, postal fraud, customs seizures, etc. Usually things workout on PayPay transactions, even international ones, but sometimes the risks is simply too great to bear. Some countries (Thailand, Malaysia, Italy) have problematic customs and postal systems and I for one will not accept PayPal from some of these countries on items of sizable value. Doing so puts me at enormous risk. I would take, for instance Western Union cash transfers and have in the past. This is a secure method for instance for sellers, but has unfortunately been a vehicle of fraud on eBay transactions (or so I've heard). Ebay has "banned" Western Union, but their probable real reason for doing so is because it can compete with PayPal which they own. My point is, let the buyers and sellers work out how they want to arrange payment, and perhaps make recommendations and have an FAQ on the pros and cons to educate users. I've also made local pickup cash deals with a few RFF members. CameraGass seems to exclude this very safe method (one sees and tests the gear before buying it!).

5) I think the CameraGass site policies that state there will be no active policing of bad apples (or something akin to this) is not a good idea. This is necessary and it is not hard. Other sites do it and prevent or mitigate fraud this way. Sanctions can range from temporary suspension to banning members depending on the infraction, nature of the complaint, public reputation of the relevant parties involved, etc. This is crucial to the success of CameraGas. If the site gets a reputation as a place that tolerates fraud, buyers and sellers will avoid it like the plague. I am not talking about slow delivery times, disputes over cosmetic things like dings and dents (or whatever) on camera bodies, but brazen theft and ripoffs. This must be clamped down on immediately.

6) Was a complete spin off of the RFF Classified's really neccessary? My view is and was that the RFF Classified section is a great place to buy and and sell classic cameras, lenses, and related items! It has a lot going for it: A direct linking to the relevant base of users interested in trading in that area, an efficient listing format, reasonably priced ad prices, a general transparency since members are often well-known, a discussion thread follows each ad, and ratings of users can take place in two places. My point is basically not that CameraGas is a bad idea, but that the RFF Classified's were already getting some interest and is (and was) a very successful format for trading. Why not simply improve and expand the scope of this existing proven mechanism in a few simple ways such as: expanding the categories, allowing the purchase of ad blocks at bulk rates, disallowing "make an offer" type listings which I think most here find annoying, provide better search facilities, making a buyer/seller rating mechanism which is easier to use (like eBay), provide better tracking of transactions in general. I am sure others have good suggestions here. I guess what I am suggesting is to merge the best of the RFF Classified's with best ideas of Camera Gas.

Incidentally I will be putting some items on CameraGas soon since the rates are now so attractive and I want it to succeed. Anything that can compete with eBay (which has some positive aspects for sure) is good and that is what I admire about CameraGas. eBay needs competitive pressure to help reign in some of its more monopolistic and self serving practices.

 

[CameraQuest]

Thanks for All the Comments

Thanks for All the Comments

There will be some changes at CameraGAS aimed at making it a better and more useful site.

And yes, there will be a name change. There will be an RFF annoucement when updating is finished.

How it will all work out, only time will tell.

Stephen

 

[CameraQuest]

Hello BuyandSellCameras !

Hello BuyandSellCameras !

The CameraGAS site is now BuyandSellCameras.

More improvements to come.

Stephen

 

[NelsonFoto]

Gandy, I haven't been lurking here for some time, and sort of regret missing this thread. I'm known to be quite blunt, so I'll tell you this straight: The old name and the new are pretty lame.

Look, you already have a fantastic name to use: CameraQuest

Why not stick with that instead of reinventing the wheel? Integrate the auction-ware into your current CQ site and move along. I really think CameraQuest is a fantastic, compact, accurate name for such a venture.

Best of luck,
CE Nelson

 

[Tuolumne]

Gandy, I haven't been lurking here for some time, and sort of regret missing this thread. I'm known to be quite blunt, so I'll tell you this straight: The old name and the new are pretty lame.

Look, you already have a fantastic name to use: CameraQuest

Why not stick with that instead of reinventing the wheel? Integrate the auction-ware into your current CQ site and move along. I really think CameraQuest is a fantastic, compact, accurate name for such a venture.

Best of luck,
CE Nelson

Good idea. I second it.

/T

 

[wlewisiii]

All the poll options either suck, are pure stupid, or both. Sorry. But as mentioned above you have the perfect domain name already. WHY keep trying to invent the wheel?

Let's be real: "BuyandSellCameras" is even more lame than the in-joke about GAS. Use Cameraquest and you might actually get some biz.

William

 

[Al Patterson]

All the poll options either suck, are pure stupid, or both. Sorry. But as mentioned above you have the perfect domain name already. WHY keep trying to invent the wheel?

Let's be real: "BuyandSellCameras" is even more lame than the in-joke about GAS. Use Cameraquest and you might actually get some biz.

William

The only one I liked was CameraFleaMarket.com, but since I don't own the site I don't get to name it.

It would be interesting to see if there is a way to leverage the CameraQuest name as was suggested above.

Which reminds me to check whether there is a link from CameraQuest to RFF and BuyandSellCameras. There wasn't last time I looked, but that was a while back.

Edit: I see there is a link to CameraGAS on CameraQuest home. I must not have been paying attention last time I was there.

 

[sienarot]

I don't think Stephen has anything to do with CameraGas/Buyandsellcameras other than the fact they are sponsors and he is helping them with a business venture.

Personally, I think buyandsellcameras is a MUCH better name than cameragas. I'm looking forward to whatever changes they have in mind.

 

[Didier]

I think it is not with a name change that more sellers and buyers can be attracted, though Cameragas always sounded a bit strange to me. Gas is often in relation with you know which gas comes out at which part of your body :~(...

Cameragas, or now "buyandsellcameras", needs a marketing concept as it seems to me there's none except a banner on RFF and CQ (still CameraGas there). Most items are new or almost new, sold by CQ and popflash/Tony Rose - which can as well be bought on their respective websites.

Most RFF members (me included) seem to prefer the RFF classifieds, or ebay, or other places. The RFF classifieds because it's in the same saloon we hang around (which also means one username/password less to use); you know the people in here, it's easy to use, though the features are limited (no auction or buy-it-now options), and though the ads disappers quickly from the first page. But it works.

How should "buyandsellcameras" grow when even at the place, where it began (RFF) it's only the second, third, fourth or fifthbest solution to buy gear, but not the first?

I'm missing the concepts for better integration and marketing at RFF, as well as outside of it - where a rough competition with ebay, photo.net classifieds and many others is to be expected. It won't be easy. And not cheap, too.

Didier

 

[rxmd]

Not to be overly blunt here, do I read and understand correctly that the name was chosen mainly because 14 people out of 67 voted for it?

 

[pesphoto]

I dont have a huge issue with the name, for me it's the fact that there is mostly high priced stuff currently up for sale that i just cant afford so that turns me off a bit.

 

[rich815]

I dont have a huge issue with the name, for me it's the fact that there is mostly high priced stuff currently up for sale that i just cant afford so that turns me off a bit.

No kidding. Get some real auctions in there and maybe people will look it as more than just a place for a couple of retailers to post the equipment sold elsewhere. What's the point otherwise?

 

[pesphoto]

Maybe put a new bessa body up for auction starting a say $20.00 and let people bid away. Then I bet you'll get some action.

 

[RFBob]

So now it becomes BScameras....wonderful.

 

[monochromejrnl]

why would users of RFF use CameraGAS or even EBAY for that matter when they could buy direct from each other here???