Cameras that just get out of the way...

icebear said:
Very well put +1. Once you are M-spoiled nothing else will get you that kind of "just a tool" feeling, if you are a user that is and not a collector.



I agree. No digital camera will ever be as simple as a film M but at least the digital M's are true M's for me and they do not offer "100 million possibilities". In my book, the MM is a step simpler than the M9. With b&w only you don't have to care about white balance - which I have to admit, I'm obsessed with (Expo Disc) to get right in the first place and not fiddeling around in LR later.
Click to expand...

While I've never used Leicas, I really don't see how their simplicity and justatoolishness (justatoolosity?) is any different from that of my SP, S3s, F, or F2 cameras, which also "disappear" when I'm shooting on the streets.
 
I agree, I love that feeling I get from shooting an M, that it is there to be drawn upon whenever needed, and left fall away as quickly. It is very much a highly personal feeling, but would love to find the same feeling in a digital camera that was somewhat compact one day :)
 
Mackinaw said:
Any camera you've had for awhile and are familiar with shouldn't get in the way.

Jim b.
Click to expand...

I agree. The first time I picked up my Hasselblad I had a viceral reaction against it - It was very much in the way. Now, after practice in use, it is just the photographic instrument that it was intended to be.

There's a lot to be said for familiarity with ones tools.
 
I feel the same way about my Voigtlander Bessa R2. I'm sure Leicas are similar. Fully manual, minimal controls, and a +/- meter in a small package. Perfect.
 
jsrockit said:
As a user of M cameras and the Fuji X cameras, I can vouch that the X100 can get out of the way just like a M can. Once you set up the camera, then all you need to adjust is the classic shutter speed dial and aperture ring... you only have to access other features if you want to. However, I will concede that some of the buttons and dials on the fuji do move too easily. That said, we will never have a digital as simple as the M6... not even the M9 is. We should be happy that digital's as "simple" as the X100 exist. :)
Click to expand...

I get the same feeling of simplicity out of the M9 as I do from the M4-2 and CL. That's why I bought it. Of course, it does have a lot more in way of controls and options, but they don't get in the way like the X100 buttons and stuff did for me.

My Olympus E-1 is another camera with that feeling of simplicity, the same quality of getting out of my way. The E-5 model, a better performer on every technical front, had become complex enough that to me it lost that transparency: you have to use it an awful lot, all the time, to not forget all the options and keep it simple. When I stopped doing photography for a living, I kept the E-1 and sold the E-5 because of that.

G
 
Wasn't the Kodak Brownie the first get out of the way type of camera? Point, shoot, send in film, get back prints. No aperture, no shutter speed. The Instamatic later on was another.
 
Shutter speed
Aperture
Focus

Lots of older cameras meet your criteria for "getting out of the way"

For it's compact form and bright viewfinder I like my OM-1. no surprise there, it has a large following.

There are many other cameras from that era I like;
Nikon F
Canon F1 (early)
Nikkormat FTn
Canon FT, FTb, TL, TLb, etc.
Pentax Spotmatics, in many versions
Minolta SRT series
The aforementioned single digit Olympus OM series
Lets not forget Topcons and Konicas
The first 3 or so versions of the Leicaflex (a tank, but what a great focusing screen)
The modest Miranda D, Fv, and other small body Miranda's
Remember the original Fujica ST701? I have the later 605n, neat camera.
A whole large camera bag full of Japanese built fixed lens RF's, some with fast glass and most full manual control when you wanted it.

Granted, some have better control layouts and more intuitive operation but many were just great cameras.
 
rbsinto said:
While I've never used Leicas, I really don't see how their simplicity and justatoolishness (justatoolosity?) is any different from that of my SP, S3s, F, or F2 cameras, which also "disappear" when I'm shooting on the streets.
Click to expand...

They're not, just on a range finder forum, you're going to get a lot more Leica talk than anything else. A Rolleiflex gets out of the way just as well, or an old folder, or a manual SLR.
 
Well, its interesting to hear everyone's response, but I think some maybe didn't see the last little thought.

Maybe I am deluding myself....

That was kinda the whole point of this post. Is that I feel really comforatble with my current cameras. And many manual cameras from past eras seem to evaporate. My FM2 is interchangeable with the exception being the dials turn in reverse as does the focus ring.

This post was met thinking out loud and wondering if I can make a digital camera get out of the way.

Some who said just put it on "P;" good point. Maybe I still like fiddling with focus rings, metering, and setting aperatures manually. I don't know. I am at a crossroads...
 
The Leicaflex SL disappears and it is truly amazing, but with mods my F3HP is getting really, really close, which is good as I can't afford a full "R" kit.
 
thegman said:
They're not, just on a range finder forum, you're going to get a lot more Leica talk than anything else. A Rolleiflex gets out of the way just as well, or an old folder, or a manual SLR.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Cameras that become transparent in my use are not confined to JUST Leica Ms. Several of the others mentioned do as well (Nikon F, FM, F3 for me in particular). The Rollei 35S for another.

One thing, though, is that not ALL cameras do this.

G
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
This is true of any digital camera. Pick it up, set it to 'P', take pictures.
Click to expand...

+1

Every digital camera out there has the "P" setting and all ya gotta do is put it to your eye and shoot. Heck, most of them have live view and don't even have a viewfinder anymore. Set it to "P" and the camera literally "gets out of your way" and does all the rest for you. That is why they sell like hotcakes and why there are very, very few manual cameras still being sold at all. Even Leica has bowed to the inevitable and is selling digital rangefinders that under the skin are not much different then other digital cameras.

All this hooey about "getting out of the way" is meaningless to me. I like a manual camera more then any other type of camera, but it certainly is not because it "gets out my way!" In fact, quite the opposite. The reason I like them is because they make me think about my photography. They slow me down and make me think about what I'm doing. How is my composition...how is the light...what is the depth of field? And on, and on, and on.

I have yet to grab my IIIc and have it "get out of my way" and start taking pictures without my input, thoughtful or otherwise. It is certainly comfortable to me. It is certainly a simple instrument. The controls are very, very familiar after all this time. I certainly love using it but I am not in the habit of just picking it up, aiming it mindlessly at some person or interesting sight, and just pressing the shutter button.

Ok...sigh. Rant over. :eek:
 
N.delaRua said:
Well, its interesting to hear everyone's response, but I think some maybe didn't see the last little thought.

Maybe I am deluding myself....

That was kinda the whole point of this post. Is that I feel really comforatble with my current cameras. And many manual cameras from past eras seem to evaporate. My FM2 is interchangeable with the exception being the dials turn in reverse as does the focus ring.

This post was met thinking out loud and wondering if I can make a digital camera get out of the way.

Some who said just put it on "P;" good point. Maybe I still like fiddling with focus rings, metering, and setting aperatures manually. I don't know. I am at a crossroads...
Click to expand...

Some you can my Olympus E-PL1 is small and lite, I use it on Auto all the time it just flows. or manual when I feel that bug.

Range
 
N.delaRua said:
..
This post was met thinking out loud and wondering if I can make a digital camera get out of the way.

Some who said just put it on "P;" good point. Maybe I still like fiddling with focus rings, metering, and setting aperatures manually. I don't know. I am at a crossroads...
Click to expand...

Bah humbug. That's not being transparent, that's letting the camera do everything.

The issue is one of tactile responsiveness and overall simplicity in use. It's responsiveness too. Higher end DSLRs do a much better job of this than less expensive DSLRs. On the less expensive cameras the sluggishness of shutter release, imprecision of controls, inconsistency of AF combine together to constantly be in the way.

G
 
Nice writeup and photos of your experiences with M cameras. I tend to agree that (manual) M cameras - and possibly quite a lot of other cameras - are getting pretty much out of the way between me and the scene. But that does not necessarily mean that I produce better results compared to me using a fully automatic camera. If exposure and focus are off it is clear that it is just me and it is hard to blame the camera. In addition, using a camera in full manual mode without a lightmeter takes quite some practice.

However, once mostly deliberated from the lightmeter everything becomes quite quick and natural. In fact estimating and evaluating the light, choosing the aperture and speed, the focus and the framing, all these components are contributing quite a lot to the fun I personally have when taking pictures. And the result is even more so satisfying, if it turned out as I wanted it to be without the aid of extensive on camera helpers. But as always, all this really depends on what one is up to. If I had to take pictures of footballers or racing cars with a tele lens for example, I would surely appreciate a quick autofocus and reliable autoexposure.
 
N.delaRua said:
This post was met thinking out loud and wondering if I can make a digital camera get out of the way.
Click to expand...

Sure, set it to P and off you go. Leave the decisions of exposure, focus, depth of field and flash use to the camera and use the exposure compensation dial if needed, if getting out of the way means getting a well exposed picture without much effort. Concentrate on subject matter and framing instead. Surely a viable route.
 
so, after a week with the Ricoh GRD, it has already began to disappear. Aside from it being small and blending into my consistent black wardrobe :p it seems to just create such an ease with taking pictures. And such great pictures at that.

I am very happy with it so far. I just hope it doesn't disappear completely or I'll have to get a new one

;)
 
Absolutely. Among digitals, the Fujifilm X-E1 has for me been just the same (even more so than the X-Pro1). Gets out of the way, does what I expect of it, delivers images limited solely by my seeing and technique.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom