Can a regular EV meter be used in the darkroom?

If you're doing 100 prints a month then some meter system may help. The more you use it the better/easier it gets. Good Luck, Joe
 
Might be good to ask what level of quality you want in your prints. For a critical application I would think test strip unless you were very good at your metering. Joe
 
I've used various enlarging meters and none are better than testing. What you might consider is looking out for the Kodak Projection Print Scale. You only need to make one test per print to get very close to the correct exposure, provided you select the right area to centre the scale on.

With a bit more experience, the print scale can also provide you with a guide to the bulk of the dodging required for each print.
 
68degrees said:
Is it enough to warrant researching meters or still just use test strips. Understand I am setting aside the "meters are for pussies" for the purpose of the exercise.
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Understood. In direct opposition to Livesteamer's view, I'd second Sejanus Aelianus and say that you'd do better with test strips.

None of us is 'right'. Much more depends on your personality.

Cheers,

R.
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
I've used various enlarging meters and none are better than testing. What you might consider is looking out for the Kodak Projection Print Scale. You only need to make one test per print to get very close to the correct exposure, provided you select the right area to centre the scale on.

With a bit more experience, the print scale can also provide you with a guide to the bulk of the dodging required for each print.
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Nice thank you!!
 
Sejanus.Aelianus said:
Roger was raising some extremely pertinent points, in my opinion. In order to automate any process, it is necessary to establish the basic parameters. When you talk about "known good shutter" it is necessary to define "good". Do you mean accurate to 5%, 20%, 50%? All are perfectly valid, provided you make that clear. The same applies to exposure meter accuracy.

However, consider a shutter accurate to 20% and an exposure meter accurate to 10%. We need to know which direction each is out (20% + 10% = 30% but 20% - 10% = 10%) so that we can get an idea of what error we are dealing with. We also need to know the constancy of the errors.

In my opinion, rather than being "small" points, these are germane to 68's original question.
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Sorry. I've only been doing this since 1968 and obviously know nothing. Let Roger answer all your picayune questions. =8^P

Calibrating a printing procedure and meter isn't rocket science. It's really pretty dumb simple if you use your brain rather than reading off a bunch of specifications and theoretical ruminations. I worked in a professional color photofinishing lab and know all the specifications and such. MOST of the details of tight process control like you're referring to are completely irrelevant if you're not making several thousand prints a day. Our average daily run was 300-400 rolls of 36 exposure color print, another 200 color trans, and another 100 medium and large format work. Get to that level of involvement and you'll buy the RIGHT gear, including meters and densitometers, and you'll get calibrated exposure tests from the film and processing machine companies.

For 100 well-finished 8x10s a month, I can do that without even needing a meter. I knew how to do that before I started high school. But I won't tell you how because you and Roger know so much more than I do about how to do it.

G
 
Godfrey said:
Sorry. I've only been doing this since 1968 and obviously know nothing. Let Roger answer all your picayune questions. =8^P

Calibrating a printing procedure and meter isn't rocket science. It's really pretty dumb simple if you use your brain rather than reading off a bunch of specifications and theoretical ruminations. I worked in a professional color photofinishing lab and know all the specifications and such. MOST of the details of tight process control like you're referring to are completely irrelevant if you're not making several thousand prints a day. Our average daily run was 300-400 rolls of 36 exposure color print, another 200 color trans, and another 100 medium and large format work. Get to that level of involvement and you'll buy the RIGHT gear, including meters and densitometers, and you'll get calibrated exposure tests from the film and processing machine companies.

For 100 well-finished 8x10s a month, I can do that without even needing a meter. I knew how to do that before I started high school. But I won't tell you how because you and Roger know so much more than I do about how to do it.

G
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As of course you always are with fine art prints.

Cheers,

R.
 
Godfrey said:
I worked in a professional color photofinishing lab and know all the specifications and such.
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Colour is a different matter - there, you have a fixed dynamic range, and must at almost all costs have a neutral tint in the most critical area, and that is where a grey card comes into play.

With black and white, it is much less meaningful, as there is no tint to be concerned about, and your primary target is to pick a paper where you can fit both highlights and shadows into the dynamic range. Where the 18% grey of the original comes to sit is a secondary design decision, and "at 18%" often will not be what you'll end up at, unless that happens all of itself without compromising highlights and shadows, or you decide to sacrifice some dynamic range for the sake of some critical mid tone near the 18%.
 
sevo said:
Colour is a different matter - there, you have a fixed dynamic range, and must at almost all costs have a neutral tint in the most critical area, and that is where a grey card comes into play.

With black and white, it is much less meaningful, as there is no tint to be concerned about, and your primary target is to pick a paper where you can fit both highlights and shadows into the dynamic range. Where the 18% grey of the original comes to sit is a secondary design decision, and "at 18%" often will not be what you'll end up at, unless that happens all of itself without compromising highlights and shadows, or you decide to sacrifice some dynamic range for the sake of some critical mid tone near the 18%.
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True, but why argue? Godfrey knows far more about this than any of us. Just ask him.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
True, but why argue? Godfrey knows far more about this than any of us. Just ask him.

Cheers,

R.
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Roger, copying my line simply shows your lack of imagination. ;-)

What works in a color lab is simplified by an order of magnitude in a B&W lab. (BTW: we did B&W work too.)

G
 
I'd say spending the time printing with test strips would be more valuable than trying to figure out how to use a meter in the darkroom. You'd need to calibrate every paper, likely every batch of paper each time. I swear by 1/2 sheet test strips when folks are learning to print. Saves time and paper, nearly every time. When it doesn't you don't want to be printing that neg if you don;t have to anyhow...
 
sepiareverb said:
I'd say spending the time printing with test strips would be more valuable than trying to figure out how to use a meter in the darkroom. You'd need to calibrate every paper, likely every batch of paper each time. I swear by 1/2 sheet test strips when folks are learning to print. Saves time and paper, nearly every time. When it doesn't you don't want to be printing that neg if you don;t have to anyhow...
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Ya Ill just do test strips, things are getting too complicated and then its not fun for me. Im not at the IQ level of most of you here and i am aware of that.
 
I use a meter to find a starting point for a smaller steps test strip. Usually the final exposure is within 1 stop from initially metered.

I found meter to be more useful with the lith printing, where accurate exposure is not as important but making test strips is more complicated.
 
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