Can Anyone Recommend a Good 6x9 Folder?

bobby_novatron

bobby_novatron

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Hello everyone, just wondering if anybody could recommend a decent 6x9 folder.

My only previous experience with these cameras has been a Moskva-2 and Mosvka-5. The Moskva-2 had a focus problem, and the Moskva-5 had a slow shutter problem. Image quality from the Moskva was OK, but even stopped down I didn't find the images very sharp.

I know that 6x9 folders died out in the late 1950's / early 1960's, but maybe somebody could recommend a decent Zeiss product? I would prefer a folder with a coupled rangefinder, I'm not a scale-focus kinda guy.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

Robert
 
What about scale focus folder with snap-on RF? From what I see folder models with integral RF cost substantially more over scale focus. But then they also usually have premium lenses (in the line-up).
 
The only Zeiss 6 x 9 RF coupled folder is the Super Ikonta C. The best ones had coated 4-element Tessar optics, and a Synchro Compur shutter. I had one in near mint condition, overhauled by Henry Scherer. Unfortunately, I sold it when I was in financial distress a couple of years ago :(. It also has a 6 x 4.5 mask, in case you want to do half frame portraits.

Right now I use a Bessa RF. Mine is from the immediate post-war era (1946-1947), and it has a coated Color - Heliar lens. Most of these are likely to have uncoated Heliar (5-element) or Skopar (4-element) lenses. Mine also has the 6 x 4.5 mask. If you put the mask in, the windows automatically adjust for the new frame spacing. The Compur Rapid shutters lack flash synch, but I've successfully used open flash.

For a lot more money, there is the Bessa II, which offers only the 6 x 9 cm frame size. Same variety of coated lenses, with flash synch. Or, for extreme cost, there is the rare Apo-Lanthar version of the Heliar, with rare earth glasses.

All of these are "wind by red window" cameras.
All of these will have their sharpness depend on how aligned the struts have remained after all this time, and by how well the lens/ rangefinder have been cleaned / adjusted since then.

Henry Scherer does superb work on restoring Zeiss cameras. There is a multi-YEAR waiting list, however.
I had my Bessa RF restored by Gus Lazzari, who only has a 6 - 9 month waiting list.
 
I have little hope in getting something from Mr Scherer's stock, I was on his waiting list for a Contax IIa overhaul and the waiting went on for over 2 years. Anyway, I just moved on and never bothered with the CLA.

I was thinking about the Zeiss, and possibly the Bessa products, but I see that prices are quite steep. A good condition Moskva-5 (3rd time's a charm!) is starting to look more attractive.
 
Agfa Record III, with coated Solinar, Synchro-Compur and useful accessory shoe. Built-in uncoupled RF and thus cheaper, lighter and smaller than CRFs, making it more likely you'll actually carry it. Just make sure the bellows is OK.
 
EDITED since seeing the above almost simultaneous post, to which +1 and ...
Check that the original helicoid grease, which turns to green glue, has been replaced.
Some are found with the Apotar triplet (good lens) and prontor shutter
 
Robert Lai said:
The only Zeiss 6 x 9 RF coupled folder is the Super Ikonta C. The best ones had coated 4-element Tessar optics, and a Synchro Compur shutter. I had one in near mint condition, overhauled by Henry Scherer. Unfortunately, I sold it when I was in financial distress a couple of years ago :(. It also has a 6 x 4.5 mask, in case you want to do half frame portraits.

Right now I use a Bessa RF. Mine is from the immediate post-war era (1946-1947), and it has a coated Color - Heliar lens. Most of these are likely to have uncoated Heliar (5-element) or Skopar (4-element) lenses. Mine also has the 6 x 4.5 mask. If you put the mask in, the windows automatically adjust for the new frame spacing. The Compur Rapid shutters lack flash synch, but I've successfully used open flash.

For a lot more money, there is the Bessa II, which offers only the 6 x 9 cm frame size. Same variety of coated lenses, with flash synch. Or, for extreme cost, there is the rare Apo-Lanthar version of the Heliar, with rare earth glasses.

All of these are "wind by red window" cameras.
All of these will have their sharpness depend on how aligned the struts have remained after all this time, and by how well the lens/ rangefinder have been cleaned / adjusted since then.

Henry Scherer does superb work on restoring Zeiss cameras. There is a multi-YEAR waiting list, however.
I had my Bessa RF restored by Gus Lazzari, who only has a 6 - 9 month waiting list.
Click to expand...
+1 for the Bessa RF; it's my best folder.
I suppose you've come across this other recent thread, and this amongst others (?)
 
Thanks to everyone for their contributions, I feel like I'm on a crash-course to learn about 6x9 folders and their variants.
 
bobby_novatron said:
I have little hope in getting something from Mr Scherer's stock, I was on his waiting list for a Contax IIa overhaul and the waiting went on for over 2 years. Anyway, I just moved on and never bothered with the CLA.

I was thinking about the Zeiss, and possibly the Bessa products, but I see that prices are quite steep. A good condition Moskva-5 (3rd time's a charm!) is starting to look more attractive.
Click to expand...

Moskva-5 is not good camera, by the way they made it for 6x6, 6x9. With modern films it is provocative for light leaks. Plus, Moskva-5 rangefinder is weird one, plus VF is in the wrong place.

Moskva-4 is the best one, but even beaten, but serviced Moskva-2 will be best 6x9 RF for its money. Good shutters and lenses in them.

Why you didn't re-aligned Moskva-2? Since it is next to Zeiss copy all of the documents available on-line will be applicable for it. Slow shutter is also very common and well described procedure to fix.
I was fixing my Moskva-2 -5 for focus and after reading original repair manuals I was going nuts, but on-line manuals in English for Zeiss was the ticket.

Here is my Moskva-2 https://www.flickr.com/photos/kf095/tags/moskva2/
and Moskva-5 https://www.flickr.com/photos/kf095/tags/moskva5/

Most of the indoors portraits are next to wide open, f8 maximum.
 
If you still have the Moskva 2 it would be worth burning a roll or two of film to verify that your problem is not simply film flatness. When you open the camera there may be sufficient vacuum to pull the film slightly toward the lens. I always open the camera and advance the film just before taking a picture.

If that is not your problem it is rather simple to adjust the front cell by loosening the grub screws on the ring which surrounds it.
 
Ko.Fe. , thanks for the info, I will take another look at my Moskva-2 to see if there is an easy fix.

pschauss , yes I thought about film flatness, but what seemed to be happening was rangefinder mis-alignment especially for close-distances. I might take another look at the Moskva-2 to see if I can get it going, because it is in excellent condition overall. Maybe there's still a way to get it to work.

I am very attracted to the Bessa II camera, and the Zeiss Ikonta, but the prices are surprisingly high ... I guess you 'get what you pay for', and the quality is worth it for those cameras. But the current prices are beyond what I'm willing to pay.
 
Welta Weltur 6x9. If it is like the 6x6 version I own: sturdy as hell, die-cast-body, unit-focusing, (uncoated) CZJ Tessar or Schneider Xenar lenses in Compur shutters, coupled & combined rangefinder/viewfinder which is _very_ useable for a 80 year old camera (I've seen much worse view-/rangefinders on much younger cameras).
It's not the most refined camera and lacks all bells and whistles like double exposure prevention (in return you get a very smoooth shutter release) or automatic frame spacing, but it is built like a tank, has a very sturdy front standard, is quite comfortable and fast to use and can deliver better image quality then all the front-element-focusing folders.

....oh, I forgot.... good luck finding one, they are rare ;)
 
Closer examination of my Moskva-2 shows the rangefinder is not accurate. I tested a focal point with 3 different cameras to be sure -- the Moskva-2 is off by about 20% (for example, my focus point was at 1.8 meters but the camera says 1.5 meters.

Now if only I can find instructions for rangefinder alignment of Moskva-2 online ... the wonders of the internet!
 
Can't help you from personal experience, but I hear good about all the 6x9 cameras mentioned so far. I do have Welta 35mm and 6x6 that are good performers, but no RF in MF. I also have a Zeiss 6x9 with a Novar lens, without RF, but an excellent performer. The only folder RF I have is a 6x6, but I usually prefer to use my Zeiss 6x9.
 
I have a Bessa II and a Super Ikonta C (530/2). There are significant design differences in the cameras. The Voigtländer is quite a bit more complex, and in some ways also more fragile. The Zeiss is a far simpler tool. The lenses are rather different as well (Color Skopar vs. uncoated Tessar), with the Bessa II giving a more modern look, and the Ikonta offering softer, more pleasant (subjective, I know) transitions into the out-of-focus areas.

The Bessa impresses me with the attention to detail and quality of finishing, while the Super Ikonta is a wonder of functional minimalist design. Both are quite capable, but I imagine most people would end up preferring one over the other by a considerable margin.
 
After much thought I decided to give the Moskva series of cameras one more try.

A fellow RFF member read this thread and offered me his Moskva-5 for evaluation, no strings attached. I ran a roll of Ilford PanF+ 50 through it today, and was quite impressed with the overall image quality. Frankly, the best I've seen from the Moskva line so far.

Here's a sample, fresh from the darkroom earlier this afternoon. Epson v700 scan, no modifications to levels, just some dust-cleaning. I think I shot this at F5.6 and 1/100th.

22397758465_c7d056e05d_c.jpg
 
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