parasko
Established
Hi all,
I'm looking for a digital camera to replace my Leica M7+35mm summicron+Provia 100 combination. Can those of you experienced with a Leica RF and the Fuji x100s please help with the following:
1. I'm mainly interested in the x100s because it has an OVF. My understanding is that is has a .50 magnification. How quick (and accurate) is it using this OVF? Is it similar to looking through a Leica viewfinder?
2. Can the x100s capture moving objects (people in street photos) reasonably well or is there shutter lag which prevents this?
3. I would only shoot RAW and I read somewhere that Fuji Raw cannot be opened in PS. Is this true? I'm using the latest version of PS.
4. Can I manually set the aperture and shutter speed whilst the camera automatically chooses the ISO?
5. Does the Fuji lens show any distortion? Sharp at around f5.6-f11? Sharp in the corners?
Any advice appreciated.
I'm looking for a digital camera to replace my Leica M7+35mm summicron+Provia 100 combination. Can those of you experienced with a Leica RF and the Fuji x100s please help with the following:
1. I'm mainly interested in the x100s because it has an OVF. My understanding is that is has a .50 magnification. How quick (and accurate) is it using this OVF? Is it similar to looking through a Leica viewfinder?
2. Can the x100s capture moving objects (people in street photos) reasonably well or is there shutter lag which prevents this?
3. I would only shoot RAW and I read somewhere that Fuji Raw cannot be opened in PS. Is this true? I'm using the latest version of PS.
4. Can I manually set the aperture and shutter speed whilst the camera automatically chooses the ISO?
5. Does the Fuji lens show any distortion? Sharp at around f5.6-f11? Sharp in the corners?
Any advice appreciated.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
I'm not digital adverse or ~that~ grumpy but I tried the X100s based on all the hype and found it to have really tiny, cheap-feeling controls that were too small and clustered too tightly for my fat XL fingers.
Imagine taking an M body with a Game Boy screen installed. Glue 8-10 Tic-Tac breath mints on the back, along with a thumb spinner toy from a McDonalds Happy Meal. That's the user interface. Don't ask me about the logic of the menus, I didn't see any.
Of course the Fujis get a lot of praise because most other digital cameras are even worse ;-p
As for the image quality, I thought it was fine but the auto-focus is still no way close to a DSLR like a Nikon D300. I think pre focusing a manual M body is a lot easier and certain, otherwise I want fast continuous focus from a semi-pro DSLR like a D300-700-800 series. With these new compacts they do fine with easy static subjects or f/8, i.e. Ken Rockwell test samples photos of roadside signs, cacti, and dead cats... but focusing quickly isn't their strength.
Sorry if you hold Fuji stock, I know I just knocked 20% off the share price lol.
Imagine taking an M body with a Game Boy screen installed. Glue 8-10 Tic-Tac breath mints on the back, along with a thumb spinner toy from a McDonalds Happy Meal. That's the user interface. Don't ask me about the logic of the menus, I didn't see any.
Of course the Fujis get a lot of praise because most other digital cameras are even worse ;-p
As for the image quality, I thought it was fine but the auto-focus is still no way close to a DSLR like a Nikon D300. I think pre focusing a manual M body is a lot easier and certain, otherwise I want fast continuous focus from a semi-pro DSLR like a D300-700-800 series. With these new compacts they do fine with easy static subjects or f/8, i.e. Ken Rockwell test samples photos of roadside signs, cacti, and dead cats... but focusing quickly isn't their strength.
Sorry if you hold Fuji stock, I know I just knocked 20% off the share price lol.
Ansel
Well-known
There is no comparison. They are entirely different beasts.
parasko
Established
Hilarious Frank! Not quite the response I was expecting but bloody funny!
ray*j*gun
Veteran
This is off point ... well maybe not....I brought my M8u to a camera shop this weekend where they had a Sony A7 on display (the manager had never seen an M) and in 5 mins the customers were all over the M and had abandoned the Sony based only on feel and touch. I am certainly aware of the digi revolution lol but a Leica still feels like a man among boys. (Commence throwing rocks.... now lol)
Ronny
Well-known
Agree with Frank!
Ryan1938
Established
As an M6 guy, I personally think the X100S is the best digital camera ever made... That said, I wouldn't trade my M6 for it.
taemo
eat sleep shoot
my 2c since I moved from a X100, X100s and X-Pro1 to an M9
there's no comparison in build and shooting style between the Fuji cameras, Fuji is an AF camera ala Contax and Hexar whereas the Leica M are pure manual but, there's a huge price difference between Fuji and Leica digital cameras. The price difference is what makes this camera worth it if you can't afford a Leica.
I always used the Fuji cameras with center AF, auto shutter and set aperture and ISO (yes you can use auto-ISO with defined max ISO and slowest shutter).
While the OVF is what made me fall in love with the Fuji X cameras, I ended up using the EVF more for critical AF; when I zone focused or f/8 or shooting landscape then I would use the OVF.
The camera can capture moving objects but define moving objects, walking yes, running possibly, running at night then most likely not.
Not sure about PS, but I could open X-Trans RAW files no problem in either LR4 or 5 but to get the most detail especially foliage then you might have to consider Capture One as well.
The lens suffer a little bit of distortion but it's very low and can easilly be fixed in post.
The buttons may feel cheap but if you treat it like a RF then you won't be using those buttons much really.
I only used the Q button to access the ISO and Playback button to review the shots.
Aperture is in the lens, Shutter is a dial, you could configure the function button for the ND filter or ISO, then there's a switch on the side to set AF or MF.
Sold all my Fuji cameras now, only to spend more time with the M9 but I've put my name down for the Fuji X200 if it comes out and it's full frame
there's no comparison in build and shooting style between the Fuji cameras, Fuji is an AF camera ala Contax and Hexar whereas the Leica M are pure manual but, there's a huge price difference between Fuji and Leica digital cameras. The price difference is what makes this camera worth it if you can't afford a Leica.
I always used the Fuji cameras with center AF, auto shutter and set aperture and ISO (yes you can use auto-ISO with defined max ISO and slowest shutter).
While the OVF is what made me fall in love with the Fuji X cameras, I ended up using the EVF more for critical AF; when I zone focused or f/8 or shooting landscape then I would use the OVF.
The camera can capture moving objects but define moving objects, walking yes, running possibly, running at night then most likely not.
Not sure about PS, but I could open X-Trans RAW files no problem in either LR4 or 5 but to get the most detail especially foliage then you might have to consider Capture One as well.
The lens suffer a little bit of distortion but it's very low and can easilly be fixed in post.
The buttons may feel cheap but if you treat it like a RF then you won't be using those buttons much really.
I only used the Q button to access the ISO and Playback button to review the shots.
Aperture is in the lens, Shutter is a dial, you could configure the function button for the ND filter or ISO, then there's a switch on the side to set AF or MF.
Sold all my Fuji cameras now, only to spend more time with the M9 but I've put my name down for the Fuji X200 if it comes out and it's full frame
bobbyrab
Well-known
I think it all depends on how you gel with the thing and there's only one way to find out, try it out for yourself.
I've a friend who like me has Leica M's, he hates his X100 and complains about it like Frank does. Whereas I love mine. I think for the money it's amazing what they've managed .
The newest software has greatly improved AF, but I'd imagine the s would be similar. The OV is quite superb with the added bonus of the very good EV for accuracy and detailed review of images. It has a great lens, nobody complains about the lens. It has nice colours straight out of the camera, WB is better than my Canons. All the controls I want quick access to are surface mounted, Plus it weighs next to nothing and despite it's lightness it feels reasonably robust.
Yes it has too many buttons and the menus could be better, but my fat fingers manage ok. Like all these smaller lighter cameras the batteries are not great, but I would strongly recommend it to anyone as a personal everyday camera.
I've a friend who like me has Leica M's, he hates his X100 and complains about it like Frank does. Whereas I love mine. I think for the money it's amazing what they've managed .
The newest software has greatly improved AF, but I'd imagine the s would be similar. The OV is quite superb with the added bonus of the very good EV for accuracy and detailed review of images. It has a great lens, nobody complains about the lens. It has nice colours straight out of the camera, WB is better than my Canons. All the controls I want quick access to are surface mounted, Plus it weighs next to nothing and despite it's lightness it feels reasonably robust.
Yes it has too many buttons and the menus could be better, but my fat fingers manage ok. Like all these smaller lighter cameras the batteries are not great, but I would strongly recommend it to anyone as a personal everyday camera.
Margu
Established
Fuji X100s costs as much as a Lama leather case for M and you can go to any camera shop and try one for yourself.
willie_901
Veteran
There is no comparison. These cameras are extremely different.
To answer your questions:
1 The OVF is more generous than most optical rangefinders. The OVF does have visual indicators for parallax correction - both framing and the AF focus region move with the AF distance estimate. It is not similar to looking through an optical rangefinder. It does let you see beyond the frame, it works well in bright light and obviously what you see is an instantaneous view. As an aside, the EVF is also useful. It is trivial and quick to switch between the OVF and EVF display. Sometimes using the EVF for a few seconds is useful. There is an EVF manual focusing aid that simulates a RF patch. The EVF is not inherently useless or inferior. Both modes have a purpose. They work well together.
2. When you learn the camera, capturing people moving in the street is not difficult. There are countless technically excellent street photos on-line from the X100/100S. The shutter burst mode is useful (if you invest in a fast SHDC card). I often use it for candid work. The camera can be operated with no more shutter delay (10ms) than your Leica, some delay or a long delay. The delay depends entirely on how you use the camera and the amount of effort you spend learning how to use it.
3. XTrans raw is fully supported by the current version of Adobe Camera Raw. Because there is no AA filter and because the XTrans demosaicing algorithms are different from Bayer algorithms, you need to use different sharpening and clarity rendering parameters than one would use with Bayer raw. It takes some effort to learn how to get the most out of XTrans raw.
4. I never use auto ISO so I can't answer this question. I believe you can use manual exposure mode with auto ISO. By the way, the exposure compensation knob does not affect the meter reading in manual exposure mode. The aperture ring has 1/3 stop click settings and the shutter speed can be controlled in 1/3 stop settings using buttons on the back of the camera.
5. The Fuji lens is no different than any other lens so of course it is not distortion free. There is a small amount of barrel distortion that is removed automatically upon import by an Adobe Lens Correction profile. It is very sharp at f 5.6 through f 8. By f 11 diffraction distortion starts to affect sharpness. The X100S remediates diffraction broadening for JPEGs using in-camera modeling. I do not know if this is possible with raw files in Adobe Camera Raw. Corner sharpness was not an issue for me. But different people have different standards. There are numerous lens tests for the X100/100S available on line so you should look at those.
Some photographers (myself included) who also use(ed) analog rangefinder cameras enjoy using the Fuji X OVF/EVF cameras because they can be used as you would use a rangefinder. You can focus and recompose, and operate the camera manually. The shutter is whisper quiet. Strangers do not find the camera threatening. It is not necessarily to constantly use the menu system nor is it necessary to review each shot. Other photographers with similar analog camera experience end up very frustrated with Fuji X OVF/EVF cameras. They hate using these cameras.
The Fuji is not a rangefinder. But it is possible for some people to use it in the manner that you use a rangefinder.
My advice is to take into consideration the time and effort required to become comfortable and quick with the X100/100S. One mis-set menu parameter can cause a great deal of frustration. When you read accounts of users' experiences it is hard to sort out what issues are no longer relevant due to to firmware upgrades, are caused by lack of understanding about how to set up and use the camera, or are actually from inherent issues.
For me, I had to practice quite a bit before I could use the X100 as I used my Canonet QL III. The same goes for using my X-Pro 1 as I used my Zeiss Ikon M.
For example, the X100S leaf shutter can not operate at wide apertures and fast shutter speeds. So the camera has an in-lens ND filter. This filter can be invoked by pushing a bottom on the camera body. The manual is very clear about this. It is possible to use an indicator in the finder to know when the ND filter is in place.
Suppose someone never reads the manual carefully and tries to use the lens wide open on a bright day. They will be frustrated since the photos will have artifacts. Or, suppose an analog RF user hates any sort of clutter in the finder and turns all the indicators off. But they did read the manual and understand when to use the built-n ND filter. Suppose in the heat of the moment they forget to turn the ND filter off. They will be frustrated when they use the camera in lower light levels until they remember the ND filter is in place.
The X100S is not a rangefinder replacement. Instead it can simulate the method one uses when working with a rangefinder. While it can seem complicated to learn how to set the OVF/EVF X cameras up so you can use them simply, it is not necessary to constantly use the menu system from that point on.
To answer your questions:
1 The OVF is more generous than most optical rangefinders. The OVF does have visual indicators for parallax correction - both framing and the AF focus region move with the AF distance estimate. It is not similar to looking through an optical rangefinder. It does let you see beyond the frame, it works well in bright light and obviously what you see is an instantaneous view. As an aside, the EVF is also useful. It is trivial and quick to switch between the OVF and EVF display. Sometimes using the EVF for a few seconds is useful. There is an EVF manual focusing aid that simulates a RF patch. The EVF is not inherently useless or inferior. Both modes have a purpose. They work well together.
2. When you learn the camera, capturing people moving in the street is not difficult. There are countless technically excellent street photos on-line from the X100/100S. The shutter burst mode is useful (if you invest in a fast SHDC card). I often use it for candid work. The camera can be operated with no more shutter delay (10ms) than your Leica, some delay or a long delay. The delay depends entirely on how you use the camera and the amount of effort you spend learning how to use it.
3. XTrans raw is fully supported by the current version of Adobe Camera Raw. Because there is no AA filter and because the XTrans demosaicing algorithms are different from Bayer algorithms, you need to use different sharpening and clarity rendering parameters than one would use with Bayer raw. It takes some effort to learn how to get the most out of XTrans raw.
4. I never use auto ISO so I can't answer this question. I believe you can use manual exposure mode with auto ISO. By the way, the exposure compensation knob does not affect the meter reading in manual exposure mode. The aperture ring has 1/3 stop click settings and the shutter speed can be controlled in 1/3 stop settings using buttons on the back of the camera.
5. The Fuji lens is no different than any other lens so of course it is not distortion free. There is a small amount of barrel distortion that is removed automatically upon import by an Adobe Lens Correction profile. It is very sharp at f 5.6 through f 8. By f 11 diffraction distortion starts to affect sharpness. The X100S remediates diffraction broadening for JPEGs using in-camera modeling. I do not know if this is possible with raw files in Adobe Camera Raw. Corner sharpness was not an issue for me. But different people have different standards. There are numerous lens tests for the X100/100S available on line so you should look at those.
Some photographers (myself included) who also use(ed) analog rangefinder cameras enjoy using the Fuji X OVF/EVF cameras because they can be used as you would use a rangefinder. You can focus and recompose, and operate the camera manually. The shutter is whisper quiet. Strangers do not find the camera threatening. It is not necessarily to constantly use the menu system nor is it necessary to review each shot. Other photographers with similar analog camera experience end up very frustrated with Fuji X OVF/EVF cameras. They hate using these cameras.
The Fuji is not a rangefinder. But it is possible for some people to use it in the manner that you use a rangefinder.
My advice is to take into consideration the time and effort required to become comfortable and quick with the X100/100S. One mis-set menu parameter can cause a great deal of frustration. When you read accounts of users' experiences it is hard to sort out what issues are no longer relevant due to to firmware upgrades, are caused by lack of understanding about how to set up and use the camera, or are actually from inherent issues.
For me, I had to practice quite a bit before I could use the X100 as I used my Canonet QL III. The same goes for using my X-Pro 1 as I used my Zeiss Ikon M.
For example, the X100S leaf shutter can not operate at wide apertures and fast shutter speeds. So the camera has an in-lens ND filter. This filter can be invoked by pushing a bottom on the camera body. The manual is very clear about this. It is possible to use an indicator in the finder to know when the ND filter is in place.
Suppose someone never reads the manual carefully and tries to use the lens wide open on a bright day. They will be frustrated since the photos will have artifacts. Or, suppose an analog RF user hates any sort of clutter in the finder and turns all the indicators off. But they did read the manual and understand when to use the built-n ND filter. Suppose in the heat of the moment they forget to turn the ND filter off. They will be frustrated when they use the camera in lower light levels until they remember the ND filter is in place.
The X100S is not a rangefinder replacement. Instead it can simulate the method one uses when working with a rangefinder. While it can seem complicated to learn how to set the OVF/EVF X cameras up so you can use them simply, it is not necessary to constantly use the menu system from that point on.
Jamie Pillers
Skeptic
I've had the X100s for some time now. I find it to be an immensely capable picture maker. Great low-light capability (much better than the M9). The camera size & weight make you want to keep it with you all day, every day. And, regarding Frank's comments about small buttons: If you use the X100s like a film Leica, you'll not use any of those buttons except for initial set-up. With aperture on the lens, shutter speed dial on top, and Fn button programmed for ISO laying just next to shutter release... you're ready to go... all day. And don't forget the built-in ND filter... very cool!
Your original post asks "Can the X100s compare to a film Leica?" Yes... they both make superb images... comfortably, competently, but different.
Your original post asks "Can the X100s compare to a film Leica?" Yes... they both make superb images... comfortably, competently, but different.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Shooting with my X100 is the closest thing in digital to going out with my M6 or M7 with a 35mm Summicron on it. It's the same kind of one-camera one-lens approach, with a similar-sized camera, a similarly excellent viewfinder, and with AF thrown in. I think it's the most Leica-like digital!
Frank Petronio
Well-known
A Leica, a Fuji, and a Canikon were walking down the street....
The Leica boasted that it had the best lenses but sheepishly admitted that it had to guesstimate focusing for street photography and not to press its buttons too fast. The Fuji went on and on about its cuteness and superior intelligence until it had to focus on a window reflection of a running child and got all flustered until its battery died. The Canikon didn't say anything... it just made photographs.
I'm just being an a$$ as usual ;-p Seriously, the Fujis are fine cameras, to each their own.
The Leica boasted that it had the best lenses but sheepishly admitted that it had to guesstimate focusing for street photography and not to press its buttons too fast. The Fuji went on and on about its cuteness and superior intelligence until it had to focus on a window reflection of a running child and got all flustered until its battery died. The Canikon didn't say anything... it just made photographs.
I'm just being an a$$ as usual ;-p Seriously, the Fujis are fine cameras, to each their own.
Snowbuzz
Well-known
That sums it up.
kermaier
Well-known
I'd say the X100 is closest to a Hexar AF. It's small and makes great pictures, but isn't something you could press into service as an entrenching tool, like an M3. I love my X100 for it's strengths, but still lust after an M9. 
twopointeight
Well-known
I just used the x100s for part of the shooting for a in-flight mag travel story in Bangkok these past 3 weeks. It was confusing going back and forth between the x100s and the XPro-1 bodies, so I used the x100s on early morning walks only. It performed well, hit focus about the same rate as an M6 and was very easy to maneuver on the street. Unfortunately, the charger is cheap (like all chargers), and quit charging. I have two chargers for my Xpro-1 and will do the same now for the x100S. Anyway, if you learn the x100s and don't mix it with other cameras, its a great tool.
maggieo
More Deadly
I concur with Jamie and I'm using the X100, which isn't nearly as boffo as the X100s.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Back when I had my X100 and M9 at the same time, the X100 all but replaced my M9 as my go-to carry everywhere camera. If I needed to shoot portraits or I wanted to carry a camera with a wider lens (the 21mm Super Angulon) then I'd carry the M9 but other than that, carrying everywhere, all the time, the X100 is an amazing camera.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
EvilTed
Member
I have a Leica M7 and an X100s.
The Fuji is great for candid street because it is small, discrete and the sounds can be turned off so there's is zero noise.
If you set it to shutter priority @ 1/125 or 1/250, it will capture street very nicely.
The Leica is a bit more work unless you zone focus and I have found only the 21mm SEM is good enough for this task.
Different beasts with different characteristics.
You should also look at the Sony A7 with Zeiss 35mm F/2.8 or the RX1r to see if these suit you better.
I prefer the Fuji because I hate using EVFs (had an X-Pro1 and XE-1 prior to the X100s).
The silent leaf shutter has speed limitations wide open (1/1000) but the built in ND filter can be programed to the function button, so its not really a limitation.
The built in flash works great a fill flash for portraits too.
A great camera, but nothing like a Leica in feel, weight or operation.
ET
The Fuji is great for candid street because it is small, discrete and the sounds can be turned off so there's is zero noise.
If you set it to shutter priority @ 1/125 or 1/250, it will capture street very nicely.
The Leica is a bit more work unless you zone focus and I have found only the 21mm SEM is good enough for this task.
Different beasts with different characteristics.
You should also look at the Sony A7 with Zeiss 35mm F/2.8 or the RX1r to see if these suit you better.
I prefer the Fuji because I hate using EVFs (had an X-Pro1 and XE-1 prior to the X100s).
The silent leaf shutter has speed limitations wide open (1/1000) but the built in ND filter can be programed to the function button, so its not really a limitation.
The built in flash works great a fill flash for portraits too.
A great camera, but nothing like a Leica in feel, weight or operation.
ET