Can you believe this???

R

rich815

Guest
I know this is slightly off topic for the site since the photos involved were not made with a rangefinder but I am so incessed I just have to share.

I just got this email from a "camera-type" software developer for the iPhone:

****************************************************

You've been sent a Flickr Mail from Yurilulu:

------------------------------------------------------------

:: Can we use your photos for our app site on Apple iTune
store?

Hi,Richard

I am Yuri from 'Art and Mobile' a company that programed
iphone
application like Toy Camera, Tilt Shift Generator, Quad
Camera.
www.artandmobile.com

I found your photo on the flicker's website. I really love
your photos. Especially this three.

Along Baseline Road,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/3257576869/in/set-72157613403262519/

Downtown San Francisco
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/3118466534/

Angel Island in San Francisco bay
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/3257576869/in/set-72157613403262519

Really beautiful...

Did you by chance use our iphone applications' Toy Camera'
to take your photos?

If you did, may we ask you for permission to use your
photographs(the highest resolution version you have.) for
our showcase on our website, our app page on itune store, or
other promotional material?
Unfortunately we are unable to pay a fee for usage, however
we would give full credit. We can also credit your website
depend on materials.

Please let me know.

Best Regards,

Yuri

******************************************
I replied as follows:

Hi Yuri,

Thanks for your nice comments on my photos, and yes all were made using your software (which I used money to buy), as mentioned in the comments and tags section of those photos in Flickr.

As for permission to use my photos, I will allow it but certainly not for free for you to use to sell, promote and showcase your for-profit business. If you would like to discuss reasonable rates for such usage please let me know. Otherwise, no you may not use my photos.


--
Richard S.
Albany, CA (San Francisco bay area)

My Photography Website
http://www.lightshadowandtone.com

My Flickr River
http://flickriver.com/photos/rich8155/popular-interesting/



He wants ME to provide my photos for FREE for his PROFIT business. The gall. And this "Toy Camera" software is supposedly "The most sold camera app in Japan". So they make big bucks selling the software but want to promote it on their website, on iTunes and in their promotional materials using my photos and not pay me a dime.

Unbelieveable.
 
rich815 said:
He wants ME to provide my photos for FREE for his PROFIT business. The gall. And this "Toy Camera" software is supposedly "The most sold camera app in Japan". So they make big bucks selling the software but want to promote it on their website, on iTunes and in their promotional materials using my photos and not pay me a dime.
Click to expand...

*shrug*

People are different. I've sold photos from Flickr, and I've given some away. Since I'm not in the business of selling photos personally, it's nice when someone offers to buy one, but I always get a nice warm fuzzy even when they ask if they can use it for free. I generally say 'yes'. But to each their own. It wouldn't really have offended me just to be asked.
 
Rich, maybe you should have responded by giving him permission to use them, but that in return you need a piece of software for your iphone that does *** for free.
 
I've given usage of my photos away numerous times for free to non-profits, but rarely have I been asked by a for-profit business that is obviously doing very well and making money to use my photos for free. And you know, if they have offered something like free software, I may have considered but the attitude as if they are some poor business "Unfortunately we are unable to pay a fee for usage" galls me....
 
bmattock said:
*shrug*

People are different. I've sold photos from Flickr, and I've given some away. Since I'm not in the business of selling photos personally, it's nice when someone offers to buy one, but I always get a nice warm fuzzy even when they ask if they can use it for free. I generally say 'yes'. But to each their own. It wouldn't really have offended me just to be asked.
Click to expand...

I must be jaded as the warm fuzzy feeling left me for things like this long ago. I once sent a photo to an owner of a bar in Korea who sent me a really respectful and polite email and said he wanted to put my photo on the wall behind the bar because he really liked it and asked for a print. He said he could likely not pay what it's worth but told me I'd get a night of free drinks should I ever make it to his town and bar in Korea. That was the closest any for-profit business asked me for a free print. Others have asked to trade prints and I'm fine with that too. But a warm fuzzy feeling because some company making big bucks asks to use my photo for free? Ha. No way.
 
rich815 said:
But a warm fuzzy feeling because some company making big bucks asks to use my photo for free? Ha. No way.
Click to expand...

Hey, everybody's different. I don't think you're wrong to feel the way you do, or to refuse to give the photos away. I just don't see it as so horrible that the guy asked. He asked, you said no, no biggie.
 
rich, as PickettWilson said, welcome to the new world.

I'm no longer amazed at the gall as the practice is so commonplace. I too was asked by company to use my photos on their site, gratis, for "credit." I asked if they would provide me a refund on their (pricey) software and free updates, if in my postings I would say "created with XYZ". They refused and moved on.

I also had to resort to a DMCA notice after nicely asking a company who swiped my photos for their use on the web. They contended I was "getting credit." I told them to pay me first, then I'd refund them with a percentage of the sales if they mentioned they came to me via their page. They ignored me. I then informed them again, and offered the deal. No response. DMCA sent.

Both knew they would find a sucker with an ego to feed.

One thing to add...I was straight up and professional when I did this. I pointed out what they did was wrong, but offered a deal. SOMETIMES, it actually nets you a sale.
 
Last edited:
I have occasion to permit the use of my photos on not-for-profit site. However, I have continually denied the use of my photos for sites that seek to sell products or advertise products. While I appreciate being asked, I do believe that providing photos to such sites for free contributes to the ongoing devaluation of photographers' services. I say this with full knowledge that I could never make a living, myself, as a photographer.....but some wish to try and it is hard to pay the light bills when competing with free photos.

My two cents.....which I do give freely!

Alan
 
ItsReallyDarren said:
Someone somewhere out there is willing to do it cheaper or in this case free. Or sometimes a pat on the back is enough.
Click to expand...

Since I posted this here, one other place, and to a few friends I've gotten a number of emails and messages.

The consensus:

"Your photos are only worth what YOU value them at."

Mine aren't free, and are worth more than a pat on my back.
 
ItsReallyDarren said:
Someone somewhere out there is willing to do it cheaper or in this case free. Or sometimes a pat on the back is enough.
Click to expand...

Problem is, you can't pay the rent with a pat on the back, nor can you feed your children. My photos are sold for money, I don't care of I get a credit line because experience has shown that a credit line NEVER brings you paying work, EVER.
 
rich815 said:
Since I posted this here, one other place, and to a few friends I've gotten a number of emails and messages.

The consensus:

"Your photos are only worth what YOU value them at."

Mine aren't free, and are worth more than a pat on my back.
Click to expand...

When I have a good photo of a friend or family I love making them a print and giving it to them. But of course that's friends and family, a pat on the back is enough.

But Yuri from Art and Mobile seemed to overstep his expectations. He wanted to use some photos to promote their product on their website and not offer anything in return.

Oh well its flickr, Yuri will probably just load up the next person in his flickrmail and ask to use their photos for free as well.
 
ItsReallyDarren said:
When I have a good photo of a friend or family I love making them a print and giving it to them. But of course that's friends and family, a pat on the back is enough.

But Yuri from Art and Mobile seemed to overstep his expectations. He wanted to use some photos to promote their product on their website and not offer anything in return.

Oh well its flickr, Yuri will probably just load up the next person in his flickrmail and ask to use their photos for free as well.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's what galls me. Supposedly their app is the top selling one of it's type for Japan. They must be bringing in some serious revenue.

A friend asked which photos they were interested in. I showed her. She expressed a real appreciation for one of them. I offered her a print. She said only if I let her take me to lunch. Nice.
 
Double Negative said:
Perfect response, if you ask me. Jeez, the nerve.

"We want your photos for free to promote our for-profit product."

Nice. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yep, the real code of conduct in todays' business world. I work myself for a company with multi billion dollar turnover, being one of the market leaders in its own industry, however I never cease to be amazed what the senior management is sometimes expecting to get for free. :mad:
 
No wonder it's virtually impossible to make a living as a photographer anymore. When people are asking for photos for free to promote themselves and their businesses and products, and there are folks out there willing to give them photos for free, how can you compete?

To those who responded that this is no big deal, what do you do for work? What if there were others out there who did what you do pretty well, and were willing to give that work away for free, just for the honor of being asked? How would you feel? I have no problem if you don't value your own work, or if your photography is just a hobby and you don't want any pay for it, but please understand that it hurts others when you give it away like this. If every client out there had the option of going to a photographer who is trying to make a living, or going to a hobbyist who is happy to do it for free, whose photo do you think the client is going to choose?

The guy who wrote asking for a print to hang in his bar and knew he couldn't afford to pay what the image is worth, but is willing to give you free drinks in exchange for a print to hang is one thing; the guy who wants you to give him your images for free to promote his for-profit business is quite another (and quite offensive).
 
drewbarb said:
To those who responded that this is no big deal, what do you do for work? What if there were others out there who did what you do pretty well, and were willing to give that work away for free, just for the honor of being asked? How would you feel?
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I am an IT worker. And I already face that - people who do what I do are off-shored all the time, their jobs replaced by those who will work for less. I wish it didn't happen, but it's the nature of the world now. My solution is to remain best at what I do, to retain my value to employers.

I have no problem if you don't value your own work, or if your photography is just a hobby and you don't want any pay for it, but please understand that it hurts others when you give it away like this. If every client out there had the option of going to a photographer who is trying to make a living, or going to a hobbyist who is happy to do it for free, whose photo do you think the client is going to choose?
Click to expand...

We all are free to do as we wish with our own work. If I give away a photo to someone who asks, I am not taking food off your table. But let's look at it the other way around. When my company cut my pay recently, did you send me a check? If not, then you have no responsibility for my income - and I have no responsibility for yours.
 
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