Aristophanes
Well-known
According to the NPD market assessment all the "pro" level cameras like the Canon S100 and Panasonic LX5 are P&S's.
These cameras also have manual overrides.
So there is a major difference between what is a market sector characterization and what is decided upon arbitrarily here because at this point the only commonality from the list above now relevant in the market is #4, and even that is subjective.
TXForester
Well-known
There is a blurring of boundary lines. I'd probably stick to no control of exposure and no control of focus. If you have some control of these then you maybe on that indistinct boundary. Also, I would not say a fixed lens (prime or zoom) puts a camera into the P&S category.
Take the Olympus 35 EC. Is it P&S or not? It is a zone/scale focus. If you rely on the zones in the viewfinder, then it is lacking in focus control. That's a point in favor of P&S. But, the lens has focus scale in feet with markings between the click stops, so it has a little more focus control than the zone icons indicate. More non-P&S?
Its exposure is automated, but there is a way around it. Adjust the ASA setting up or down to make the camera underexpose and overexpose relative to what it does with a matched ASA setting. Does any amount of exposure control move it more towards non-P&S status?
Take the Olympus 35 EC. Is it P&S or not? It is a zone/scale focus. If you rely on the zones in the viewfinder, then it is lacking in focus control. That's a point in favor of P&S. But, the lens has focus scale in feet with markings between the click stops, so it has a little more focus control than the zone icons indicate. More non-P&S?
Its exposure is automated, but there is a way around it. Adjust the ASA setting up or down to make the camera underexpose and overexpose relative to what it does with a matched ASA setting. Does any amount of exposure control move it more towards non-P&S status?
mwooten
light user
me: "Here you go. Turn it on with this switch. Look through this part. Then mash this button."
her: "Is that all?"
me:" That's all."
her: "OK. I like this camera."
her: "Is that all?"
me:" That's all."
her: "OK. I like this camera."
ElectroWNED
Well-known
you chauvinistic pig...
just kidding, we all know women have smaller brains... it's just science.
dave lackey
Veteran
Works for me, too!:angel:
Seriously, I find it gratifying to obtain some really good images with a simple point and shoot camera like the XA2 or other small digitals that I have used. There are some great images out there from iphones, too.
Smallness has crept into my life. Let's get small!
Shade
Well-known
Well I guess P n S is what it is, a camera that only (mostly) lets you point and shoot where you can't adjust or control most of the things.
However, I think P n S is a definition of "shooting style" instead of a camera type. You can turn an M9 or a Phase1 or an Olympus OM-D to an P n S if you'd like. The results though may not always be satisfactory.
However, I think P n S is a definition of "shooting style" instead of a camera type. You can turn an M9 or a Phase1 or an Olympus OM-D to an P n S if you'd like. The results though may not always be satisfactory.
Aristophanes
Well-known
A P&S is any camera an angel dancing on the head of a pin would use.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
My point about pi and the square root of 2 was that we can argue forever but for most practical purposes we all know the answer. But even that is a matter of how much precision you want.
As for irony, I dunno...
Regards, David
David Hughes
David Hughes
HI,
That's exactly it. We use it as both a noun and a verb. And I think we'd all agree that using a camera with a full set of manual controls and a fuller set of auto controls (weird menus etc) as a P&S doesn't make the camera a P&S.
Regards, David
Aristophanes
Well-known
The NPD marketing group, BCN and others no longer make that differentiation. The market is measured between compacts and system cameras.
unixrevolution
Well-known
Sounds like my fiancee. She is bemused by my rangefinders and utterly bewildered by my 4x5's, though she likes her Pentax manual focus SLRs pretty well.
Maybe that's what we need. No camera is really a point and shoot unless it passes the "Grandma Test."
There are a thousand P&S digital cameras on the market that offer some kind of override for at least one of the aspects that a P&S camera is supposed to do. Are they all something other than a point and shoot?
If I put a Canon EOS-1Dx into Program, switch on AF and glue the controls, is it a point and shoot?
Strictly speaking, I can't make a compelling argument, except for Pre-1980 (and in most cases, pre-1950) cameras with fully manual controls that, in their era, were definitely considered to be in the same class we call point and shoots now. Folding 120 scale focus cameras like the Brownie and the Tourist, box cameras with rudimentary aperture control like the Kodak Duaflex, and other such.
So they may be simple cameras, but are they really Point and Shoot? Probably not. But my mind considers them to be cut from the same cloth.
David Hughes
David Hughes
HI,
Hmmm, I don't know what the situation is where you live but in Wales it is legal and encouraged to disagree with marketing groups.
I wouldn't want to do anything that would encourage them and so I'll be proposing a few, new categories of cameras. Large and small come to mind, so does simple and serious, dear and cheap and so on.
Regards, David
leicapixie
Well-known
The camera must fit into a pocket. It must have a viewfinder. It must have a flash. It must have an attitude to any change wanted by the user! My Kodak Easy-share and Olympus Infinity have all these attributes.In addition must be totally battery dependent on a special, read, expensive cell. The Kodak uses any power source. That is a negative for the marketing dept. The Kodak has stunning color. It's files work way quicker than my other digital files! No they are not small. It's attitude though...
mathomas
Well-known
How's this:
The degree of P&S-ness is directly proportional to how difficult it is to make manual adjustments to exposure and focus.
So, there's a scale from the Brownies to the fully-manual SLRs many of us love. From no-choice-at-all (thus no need for automation), through automatic-only, through automatic-by-default-and-difficult-to-do-manual-things, through automatic-or-manual-your-choice-and-it's-fairly-easy-to-make-manual-adjustments, and finally there-are-settings-to-make-and-you-gotta-make-em-all-by-yourself-dammit.
The degree of P&S-ness is directly proportional to how difficult it is to make manual adjustments to exposure and focus.
So, there's a scale from the Brownies to the fully-manual SLRs many of us love. From no-choice-at-all (thus no need for automation), through automatic-only, through automatic-by-default-and-difficult-to-do-manual-things, through automatic-or-manual-your-choice-and-it's-fairly-easy-to-make-manual-adjustments, and finally there-are-settings-to-make-and-you-gotta-make-em-all-by-yourself-dammit.