Can you develop a photographer's eye?

Tim Murphy said:
Dear Board,

Except for the occasional bird or deer, I simply cannot take a picture that is worth a crap.

When is it time to quit?

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA:)
Click to expand...


Hi,


Far better is to go on taking pictures and quit worrying about it. I often look at how many hits my snaps get and wonder what on earth people see in the pictures but the stat's say they are popular or something.


Regards, David
 
Another consideration is that even well known photographers only had a few ‘keepers’. I wonder how many pictures HCB took that never were printed or seen by the public. Especially working with small formats, there are bound to be a lot of non keepers on those contact sheets. (Or with digital, stuff that is examined and either rejected or outright deleted.)
 
Everyone takes crappy pictures. Lots of them. The trick is to only show the good ones.

From what I hear (since I don't own the book) "Magnum - Contact Sheets" will illustrate that nicely.

Keep shooting!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 
I agree with a number of points already made

1. Get a mentor if possible. I was very lucky that my dad was a photographer and was my mentor at a young age.
2. Look at pictures of the masters. As someone said you don't have to buy books, but I find that used photography books on Amazon are quite a deal.
3. As @jszokoli said, the fact that you find your work bad means that you are being self critical, and this is the key to getting better pictures.

I would add to point 3 that sometimes I get a roll back and scan through the scans quickly and think, geez nothing good on this one, but then come back later and after looking more carefully, find that in fact there are some keepers on the roll. As you look at the work of the masters you will find that many great photographs are technically not great, but otherwise (composition, subject, moment in time, etc.) actually great. The worst thing to do is to compare your work to highly post processed digital masterpieces, because the classic great photographers rarely if ever produced work that perfect, but their work is still great.
 
Speaking mostly of my own experience... I found that my photographic eye and composition skills were drastically improved when I was forced to compose photos without using a viewfinder at all. I think of composition as something that occurs in the photographer's mind, and the viewfinder is purely for framing and focusing.
Also, ask yourself why you're taking photos, and with that in mind, look through your work from the perspective of trying to understand why you think a photo is not good.
 
“Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst.” – Henri Cartier-Bresson

Just keep taking them.

Also in my case I have photos I took in the past that were disregarded at the time, that feel completely different to me when viewed today.
 
Tim Murphy said:
................ Except for the occasional bird or deer, I simply cannot take a picture that is worth a crap.
When is it time to quit?...............
Click to expand...

Tim: my 2 cents is a variance with most here but that's no problem for me. I can only tell you what worked for me when I was in your situation.

First, do you have a general idea what is wrong with your photography? That is a tough one as most don't. Is is just when you look at all your work, do you conclude there is simply little of merit there?

I concluded in the late 80's there was little of significance that I had accomplished since I began seriously photographing in the mid 70's. I had to admit that in 15 years that I had become technically quite proficient, was a pretty good darkroom printer, had established that I could consistently do well in local camera club contests. But when I stepped back and critically analyzed my results, I had to conclude there was just not much of real value there. I disposed of all my gear and did only family happy snaps almost 20 years.

Then around 2000, several things came together that set me off photographing seriously again and satisfied with my results.

First of all, I became interested in my own local culture which led to photographing it in order to document what was disappearing and to spread that knowledge to others. I finally accepted what some had been telling me that you must create a cohesive body of work. I realized that one must love what they are photographing more than the act of photographing it. Almost 20 years later, I am still working on that basic theme although the locations have shifted geographically.

Secondly, I began to constantly have a goal in mind. Both with individual photographs and with photo series in general. Based on input from a bit of mentor, a newspaper writer and not a photographer, I began asking myself why a photo existed, what was I trying to accomplish, and how well did I accomplish my goal. I began to develop satisfaction with my work.

I also concluded that there was little I could learn from other photographers. I am satisfied with my technical skills. Their critique would only lead me to photograph to satisfy other photographers and not the overall population. I am fortunate to have a few excellent photographers as friends. But when we get together, we don't discuss photos or photography. Instead it is culture, communications, travel, life experiences.

It was beneficial for me to begin publicly exhibiting. While the initial venues were very pedestrian, I learned the differences between what the public and other photographers considered important. It became apparent that the public wanted emotion, impact, and information with very little emphasis on the technical as contrasted to photographers who were primarily interested in the technical aspects.

Tim: I am not sure what you are looking for in your photography that you think is missing. Just have a goal. No problem if your goal is to happily wander around looking to occasionally find something unique that will made an interesting stand alone photo. Just have a reasonable expectation and evaluate your results accordingly. Do be cautious of proposed simple solutions to a complex problem.
 
Aside from your sketchy first post you haven't really given us much information Tim. You seem to think your pics are crap but self analysis is dangerous at best in my opinion.

What in particular don't you personally like about your efforts ... is it composition that displeases you or the technical side of your photos? Subject material is neither here nor there in my opinion but maybe you are frustrated with a lack of imagination in that area?

More information please Tim. :)
 
Bob Michaels said:
Tim: my 2 cents is a variance with most here but that's no problem for me. I can only tell you what worked for me when I was in your situation.

First, do you have a general idea what is wrong with your photography? That is a tough one as most don't. Is is just when you look at all your work, do you conclude there is simply little of merit there?

I concluded in the late 80's there was little of significance that I had accomplished since I began seriously photographing in the mid 70's. I had to admit that in 15 years that I had become technically quite proficient, was a pretty good darkroom printer, had established that I could consistently do well in local camera club contests. But when I stepped back and critically analyzed my results, I had to conclude there was just not much of real value there. I disposed of all my gear and did only family happy snaps almost 20 years.

Then around 2000, several things came together that set me off photographing seriously again and satisfied with my results.

First of all, I became interested in my own local culture which led to photographing it in order to document what was disappearing and to spread that knowledge to others. I finally accepted what some had been telling me that you must create a cohesive body of work. I realized that one must love what they are photographing more than the act of photographing it. Almost 20 years later, I am still working on that basic theme although the locations have shifted geographically.

Secondly, I began to constantly have a goal in mind. Both with individual photographs and with photo series in general. Based on input from a bit of mentor, a newspaper writer and not a photographer, I began asking myself why a photo existed, what was I trying to accomplish, and how well did I accomplish my goal. I began to develop satisfaction with my work.

I also concluded that there was little I could learn from other photographers. I am satisfied with my technical skills. Their critique would only lead me to photograph to satisfy other photographers and not the overall population. I am fortunate to have a few excellent photographers as friends. But when we get together, we don't discuss photos or photography. Instead it is culture, communications, travel, life experiences.

It was beneficial for me to begin publicly exhibiting. While the initial venues were very pedestrian, I learned the differences between what the public and other photographers considered important. It became apparent that the public wanted emotion, impact, and information with very little emphasis on the technical as contrasted to photographers who were primarily interested in the technical aspects.

Tim: I am not sure what you are looking for in your photography that you think is missing. Just have a goal. No problem if your goal is to happily wander around looking to occasionally find something unique that will made an interesting stand alone photo. Just have a reasonable expectation and evaluate your results accordingly. Do be cautious of proposed simple solutions to a complex problem.
Click to expand...

As someone who has very little regard for his own work and who often asks the same question Tim asks, I enjoyed reading this thoughtful and reflective response. Thanks.
 
Great thread. Lots of good suggestions.

You are still at it, so you care. I agree you should examine why your bad ones are bad. But look for the good in your good ones too.

Questions and purpose are the key to moving forwards. And effort and ambition. I had developed a certain proficiency over the years but it was in 2008, when I was 47 that I suddenly moved forwards. Two reasons. One, Rangefinder forum. I have learnt so much here about photographs. Two, I just tried harder. A bit like the Sam Abell quote earlier in the thread, just go for good, as in better than it might otherwise have been, the best you can do on the day.

That year I had my first roll of Fuji Velvia, for $36 Australian. A dollar a slide. I went for a walk, in pain from a broken rib the day before. It was 6:10am on a beautiful morning by the sea with my M6 and 35 Summicron. I did not want to the think about getting this roll of film back with 37 indifferent pictures I had wasted time and money on. All these conditions aligned. I looked through the viewfinder almost as I had never done before, looking at the composition very critically, how much sky, which rocks, a bit closer, back a bit? Breaking wave, still water, wait for a better wave? I think I took 9 shots in an hour and bit. Four were quite good, not great, but so much better than I would have had without this new effort.

I can think of 6 or 7 good photographs I have taken in the last 40 years from which I learnt more about what it is I am looking for and want to get in a picture. It doesn't matter what luck might have been involved, I learnt form my good fortune. The more you put in, the more you get back.

And as well as the great photographs, from which we all learn, I found here in the Gallery and in discussion, what simple subjects with almost no remarkable content, can make wonderful photographs because of the light, texture, mood etc. There's more to photography than just great photographs.

The problem with deer is that they are just subject material. Same with birds. You'll be more satisfied to make photographs perhaps, than to record subjects.
 
As in all endeavors, education and experience are the best tutors. I was lucky and had a mentor to help me. I still take crap pictures but now I know why. Galen Rowell mentioned in one of his books that he thought a good day shooting was one where he got one keeper from 200 shots. Any one of us would probably be proud of any of his other 199 but the point is that not all, nor even most, or even some shots are going to be winners. Study so you at least know why.
 
The real question might be, what do I need to do to get great pics? When I was much, much younger I wanted to be an artist. A painter. Get up when you want, paint naked wahine, drink, and get paid for it! So I embarked on a pilgrimage to galleries and museums across the country which took me literally from San Francisco to New York. The idea was to understand what a painting that really worked was supposed to look like. Believe me, you know it when you see it. Not that imitation was the goal, just the opposite.

I never thought that I had any special inborn talent, but I could learn about composition and colour. You really can't express yourself in a unique manner w/o mastering the fundamentals first. Once the rules are understood, then you can break them. You can develop an eye for what a good photograph is supposed to look like in a number of ways, but this scheme worked for me. It comes from your belly, not your head. Intuition is where creativity is at, and few things good occur w/o hard work and determination. It's quite likely that failure is success on a level that we don't yet understand. It's through failure that we learn how to be successful, strange as that may sound.
 
Tim, maybe it's time to bone up on your Photoshop skills. :D


But really, I found I picked up some good knowledge whenever I was around other photographers. Sometimes just watching how they work a scene can be very instructional. And if you think you can/do waste too much film, then get a decent used digital camera with good manual controls, and bang away until you get an idea of what it is that needs improvement, then fix that.


Also, go at it with the idea that you don't care if it's a crappy photo, as long as it conveys to someone else what you want it to. Improvement only comes with practice, along with consistency. Get out there and burn some film/pixels!


PF
 
I can't find the link to a great quote by David Hearn, so I'll go from memory. It goes something like this: David Hearn (who himself is an excellent photographer) overheard a conversation between Henry Cartier-Bresson and W Eugine Smith.

HC-B says to WES: 'How many excellent photographs do you make a year?'

WES pauses, then replies: 'Oh, about 12 or 13'.

HC-B replies: 'The trouble with you Eugine, you always exaggerate.'

Moral here is to not expect too many excellent photos. If I get one a year I'm doing well.
 
Let me try to explain

Let me try to explain

Keith said:
Aside from your sketchy first post you haven't really given us much information Tim. You seem to think your pics are crap but self analysis is dangerous at best in my opinion.

What in particular don't you personally like about your efforts ... is it composition that displeases you or the technical side of your photos? Subject material is neither here nor there in my opinion but maybe you are frustrated with a lack of imagination in that area?

More information please Tim. :)
Click to expand...

Dear Keith,

I approach photography with the idea of recording what my eyes see and I try to duplicate that. Technically I do pretty well with exposure and focus but my pictures don't often seem to match my vision of the time?

Like I said my main interest in photography lies with nature and birds. I don't always have a camera handy, but I always watch the landscape to see what I can see. Most days something of great interest catches my eyes, but when it comes time to return to the scene and try to record it I fail, even if the birds and animals are doing the same things they did when I first observed them.

I have no doubt that more time spent afield with the camera in hand would improve my results so I will make that my first goal.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA :)
 
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