gyuribacsi
Established
Recently I made some shots in a very dynamic light situation with the RD1 and a Summicron 2/35 Vers. 4 The first time a noticed a strange behavior of the sensor = funny and ugly flair and boarders between highlight areas and lowlight areas. I have marked them in the attached photo.
How to explain this and how to avoid it (o.k. not shooting in such light).
What are your wise oipinions?
Regards
George
How to explain this and how to avoid it (o.k. not shooting in such light).
What are your wise oipinions?
Regards
George
gyuribacsi
Established
gyuribacsi
Established
How to get this d***d picture bigger?:bang:
Ahrrgh!
Ahrrgh!
gyuribacsi
Established
ferider
Veteran
This is the Leica Glow ! 
I miss Munich.
Roland.
I miss Munich.
Roland.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Bright light hitting a white surface...I believe your own eyes would have problems dealing with this too...
The area being metered would be in a more normal lighting situation and may not be taking these bright spots into consideration...
It just might be me but I don't see anything out of the ordinary here...
The area being metered would be in a more normal lighting situation and may not be taking these bright spots into consideration...
It just might be me but I don't see anything out of the ordinary here...
gyuribacsi
Established
Thanks to all of you, but there is something like an aura over the young mans shirt and if you could look at the 100% magnification in the tif-file you would see a black line boarder following the white shirt as drawn by charcoal. Never seen this before. It is definitly no Leica-glow.
There was no dust or fingerprint on the surface of the lens, no filter too.
Well, the dynamic range of the sensor is not very wide and the light situation was really extreme. If I may use the zone system, I would guess the shirt as IX and the shirt behind it as IV.
It`s a annoying, because there is a nice little detail (kissing couple) in the picture. The lady in the foregound, who marched into the shot, I would crop out. But with these auras it remains a worthless photo.
Regards
George
There was no dust or fingerprint on the surface of the lens, no filter too.
Well, the dynamic range of the sensor is not very wide and the light situation was really extreme. If I may use the zone system, I would guess the shirt as IX and the shirt behind it as IV.
It`s a annoying, because there is a nice little detail (kissing couple) in the picture. The lady in the foregound, who marched into the shot, I would crop out. But with these auras it remains a worthless photo.
Regards
George
Darren Abate
Professional Shooter
If you aren't used to seeing this kind of behavior with this lens, then I would suspect an anomalous film on the lens or something like that, akin to what you get when you try to shoot at the beach. No matter how much I clean the lens, it seems I can never totally get rid of that salt film that produces flare and glow like that. Maybe something greasy got on your lens that didn't come completely clean when you ran a cloth over it. Just a thought.
Could the black line be caused by overzealous edge sharpening? I've noticed that problem a lot with my R-D1, and make it a point to make sure the ES is at 0 when processing my RAW files.
Cheers.
Could the black line be caused by overzealous edge sharpening? I've noticed that problem a lot with my R-D1, and make it a point to make sure the ES is at 0 when processing my RAW files.
Cheers.
gyuribacsi
Established
Hello Darren! I never sharpen my photos. The only manipuation I have done with this pic was a to light up the shadows a little and reduce the highlights heavily, no correction of the mid-tones.
I possess this lens over 8 years, it never failed with film. No cleaning marks no grease no dust. Don´t think the lens made this phaenomena.
Cheers
George
I possess this lens over 8 years, it never failed with film. No cleaning marks no grease no dust. Don´t think the lens made this phaenomena.
Cheers
George
ampguy
Veteran
The 35/2 ASPH version fixes this known problem.
gyuribacsi
Established
Oh ampguy! That`s the solution! There´s only a small problem - money for a new lens. And the fact that, as I´v been told by a Leica-ingeneer today, the sensor of the RD1 would have a lot of problems with aspheric Leica lenses!
O.K. let`s get serious. Is there any RD1 user outside, who has notiv´ced the same issue?
Cheers
George
O.K. let`s get serious. Is there any RD1 user outside, who has notiv´ced the same issue?
Cheers
George
furcafe
Veteran
I have noticed that on some R-D1 shots, but also on M8 shots.
I believe it's something peculiar to digital sensors, not just the R-D1 & M8, & that there are some other threads about this phenomenon.
I believe it's something peculiar to digital sensors, not just the R-D1 & M8, & that there are some other threads about this phenomenon.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
It may be a fact that you were told that, but it isn't a fact that asph lenses behave badly on the RD-1, based on my experience with my 35/2 asph and 90/2 AA.
Crane
Member
Sensor behaviour
Sensor behaviour
The black line at the boundaries between extreme highlights and darker tones is a property of most, if not all digital sensors. The harsh delineation you note in your image is something many who have moved to digital from film have complained of. There is no 'roll-off' from highlights to darker tones. The effect is most noticeable at the transitions from very bright to very dark, rather than to medium tones. I can reproduce the effect with my leased Aptus 65, under similar conditions.
The aura you mention is either sensor 'bloom' (which the RD-1 is thankfully not prone to) or, as others have remarked, possibly an effect produced by the particular qualities of the lens when faced with the high level of contrast.
Post production will salve minor problems like this. A gentle application of the burn tool, at a low setting, to improve local contrast and reduce / remove the slight 'haze' in the affected area, plus careful use of the healing tool in CS3, should clean things up. Sometimes, I note that the black boundary lines can show up as red / magenta. Here, one also needs to employ the desaturation tool in Photoshop.
I use Leica's aspherical lens designs with the RD-1, and they work perfectly well. They do, however, have markedly reduced depth of field, on a stop for stop basis, compared to their non-aspherical predecessors. In this respect, the 28 Cron ashp' seems more limited in its DOF than the 35 Cron ashp'. I find I can't trust my focusing for close work with the 28 Cron ashp' at wide apertures, and so I have reverted to using a 28 Elmarit non-asph' on my RD-1 bodies. I can focus this with certainty at its widest aperture of 2.8, whereas with the Cron, even 2.8 presents a challenge.
Kind regards,
Crane
Sensor behaviour
The black line at the boundaries between extreme highlights and darker tones is a property of most, if not all digital sensors. The harsh delineation you note in your image is something many who have moved to digital from film have complained of. There is no 'roll-off' from highlights to darker tones. The effect is most noticeable at the transitions from very bright to very dark, rather than to medium tones. I can reproduce the effect with my leased Aptus 65, under similar conditions.
The aura you mention is either sensor 'bloom' (which the RD-1 is thankfully not prone to) or, as others have remarked, possibly an effect produced by the particular qualities of the lens when faced with the high level of contrast.
Post production will salve minor problems like this. A gentle application of the burn tool, at a low setting, to improve local contrast and reduce / remove the slight 'haze' in the affected area, plus careful use of the healing tool in CS3, should clean things up. Sometimes, I note that the black boundary lines can show up as red / magenta. Here, one also needs to employ the desaturation tool in Photoshop.
I use Leica's aspherical lens designs with the RD-1, and they work perfectly well. They do, however, have markedly reduced depth of field, on a stop for stop basis, compared to their non-aspherical predecessors. In this respect, the 28 Cron ashp' seems more limited in its DOF than the 35 Cron ashp'. I find I can't trust my focusing for close work with the 28 Cron ashp' at wide apertures, and so I have reverted to using a 28 Elmarit non-asph' on my RD-1 bodies. I can focus this with certainty at its widest aperture of 2.8, whereas with the Cron, even 2.8 presents a challenge.
Kind regards,
Crane
gyuribacsi
Established
Thank you Crane for your very useful reply.
I am not used to do very much post processing with PS (I have PS Elements 6) because I don`t like the whole procedure. So I only do a little tweaking the exposure settings and colour renditions to my digital photos and the scanned film files. I always try to be very accurate in the first step (taking the picture) for not having the PS process after.
I am not responsible to the Leica-statement about the behavior of aspheric lenses with the RD1. Yesterday a Leica-Rep. told me the story at a M8 promition event in Munich.
Well, now it is very clear, that I have to avoid such light conditions in the future when I am out with the RD1. In average or lowlight situations the RD1 delivers very good exposures.
Regards
George
I am not used to do very much post processing with PS (I have PS Elements 6) because I don`t like the whole procedure. So I only do a little tweaking the exposure settings and colour renditions to my digital photos and the scanned film files. I always try to be very accurate in the first step (taking the picture) for not having the PS process after.
I am not responsible to the Leica-statement about the behavior of aspheric lenses with the RD1. Yesterday a Leica-Rep. told me the story at a M8 promition event in Munich.
Well, now it is very clear, that I have to avoid such light conditions in the future when I am out with the RD1. In average or lowlight situations the RD1 delivers very good exposures.
Regards
George
LCT
ex-newbie
Why so? Just shoot raw at -1 EV and it should do it if you don't mind to adjust in PP.
tomasis
Well-known
good idea, lct.. try to adjust contrast.
it is glow anyway. more glowing on sensors than films with older lenses maybe when they have lower contrast
no wonder that asph lenses have higher contrast so it reduces "haze " look. New Zeiss could do same thing.
it is glow anyway. more glowing on sensors than films with older lenses maybe when they have lower contrast
no wonder that asph lenses have higher contrast so it reduces "haze " look. New Zeiss could do same thing.
ampguy
Veteran
kuzano
Veteran
Sharpen is recommended as last step in workflow.
Sharpen is recommended as last step in workflow.
Most of the references I have seen to sharpening put it at the last step in the post processing, which would preclude any sharpening in camera. I suppose if you don't plan to post process, perhaps in cam sharpening is certainly an option.
Most comments I have seen to explain sharpening as the last process is that premature sharpening can limit the post process experience in other functions. Seems to be consistent with anything that happens prematurely.
So, one question may be, what settings are you using for the edge-enhancement in "film" presets on the RD1
Sharpen is recommended as last step in workflow.
Most of the references I have seen to sharpening put it at the last step in the post processing, which would preclude any sharpening in camera. I suppose if you don't plan to post process, perhaps in cam sharpening is certainly an option.
Most comments I have seen to explain sharpening as the last process is that premature sharpening can limit the post process experience in other functions. Seems to be consistent with anything that happens prematurely.
So, one question may be, what settings are you using for the edge-enhancement in "film" presets on the RD1
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charjohncarter
Veteran
This is exactly why I don't like digital much. You are constantly picking your shots to avoid noise, dynamic range violations, or color temperature problems.