eleskin
Well-known
My God! ISO 51,200 for the Canon 1DX! Now I am sure at that ISO Image quality will not be that great but come on Leica, how far behind you are getting with very limited ISO ranges for cameras that cost the same as the new 1DX. If Leica had a great ISO 6400, I would love that using my Noctilux f1.0 and Nokton f1.2. Leica has to make some modest improvement for what they charge for a digital M. It has been quite a few years and we need improvements in the M10. They also cannot make it more expensive than Nikon and Canon's top pro models. I have read Leica now wants to concentrate on better high ISO and dynamic range and not megapixel madness. I hope this is true, and I hope we will see the much better ISO ranges expensive M mount lenses deserve to bring their full potential out.
gavinlg
Veteran
I'm afraid the only way to get similar high ISO performance to canon and sony CMOS sensors is to change to a CMOS sensor in the M digital camera, which would probably mean using a canon or sony sensor.
51,200 native if I read correctly, not an extended range.
Shade
Well-known
I think the ccd is workable to be able to handle higher ISO settings, but perhaps they're saving that technology for the nxt m line. I mean who wouldve thought cmos would be able to handle ISO 51200 native. I never even imagined that number. Few years ago acceptable ISO 1600 is all I could wish for..
Jamie123
Veteran
Yes, I think extended it goes as far as 204,800.
AncientCityPhoto
Established
If someone had a Leica that went to 204,800, with a 1.4 lens wide open to get a proper exposure, your problems would be even worse than ISO noise. Your eyes wouldn't see anything!
This push for high ISO is more for sports and keeping the shutter speed high in dim light.
I think if Leica would have a clean 3200 or 6400 ISO that would be more than plenty for most.
This push for high ISO is more for sports and keeping the shutter speed high in dim light.
I think if Leica would have a clean 3200 or 6400 ISO that would be more than plenty for most.
huntjump
Well-known
Yea i wonder just how high of ISO we really need sometimes. My d700 has met every possible low light need I've ever come across, EXCEPT . . . when i went cave spelunking. But zero ambient light in a cave so I wasn't blaming my camera that's for sure
Moriturii
Well-known
This!.....
Archiver
Veteran
The 1Dx is a monster of a camera. Ha, we say this now but in only five years we will see ISO51,200 as almost normal and gape at cameras closing into the ISO 1mil range. I wonder when and at what level it will all plateau?
It's kind of annoying that my Ricoh GXR-M does high ISO far, far better than the M9. The M9 is much better at lower ISO's, though. And I think that dynamic range ought to be the next frontier, although dynamic range values are not as easy to market as an easily touted ISO or megapixel number.
It's kind of annoying that my Ricoh GXR-M does high ISO far, far better than the M9. The M9 is much better at lower ISO's, though. And I think that dynamic range ought to be the next frontier, although dynamic range values are not as easy to market as an easily touted ISO or megapixel number.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Here is what you do.
move lips to whistle position
make a long oooooooooooooooooh sound while...
....... flapping lips with index finger.
Now you know what it sounds like in the Leica laboratory when suggestions of iso 51,200 for the M10 are brought up. I don't think it's going to happen fellas. Maybe M12 or M51.200.
move lips to whistle position
make a long oooooooooooooooooh sound while...
....... flapping lips with index finger.
Now you know what it sounds like in the Leica laboratory when suggestions of iso 51,200 for the M10 are brought up. I don't think it's going to happen fellas. Maybe M12 or M51.200.
High ISO is not a bad thing... use it if you need it, ignore it if you don't.
eleskin
Well-known
35mm , 50mm Summicron and why high ISO is desirable
35mm , 50mm Summicron and why high ISO is desirable
We all know the legendary sharpness wide open of Leica's 35mm and 50mm Summicron lenses. The bad thing is they are f2.0 and in low light, that is a problem. Now imagine we can use high ISO's with these lenses much the way we can with the top of the line Canon and nikon pro gear. here, we can expand the usefulness of these lenses in all lighting conditions, exploit their best features (resolution, color, etc,,,) and also benefit from their compact size. This is a no brainer and anyone who thinks there is a future in digital M photography will understand high ISO and dynamic range are many times important than increasing the megapixels in the M9 sensor for the M10.
Yes, we can use faster lenses that are larger in size etc,,, and yes, f1.2, f1.0 offer unique bokeh (I have a Noctilux AND 35MM F1.2 Nokton and use them in low light with my M8 with great results, but I wish I could push the lenses more with tremendous high ISO) but not everyone has the money for fast lenses and even some of us who do sometimes want to leave the heavy stuff at home and go compact while walking around. Great high ISO would make things easier.
Some of you will say if you want high ISO go buy a Nikon or Canon. That is fine to say but for those of us who put a sizable investment in Leica M mount lenses, many of us are in no financial mood to buy whole other systems with lenses, especialy with bils to pay. Some will say if you buy Leica you can afford it. Some of us have limited funds and use Leica because we love the form factor, rangefinder and lenses and the look they create and buy on ebay or anywhere else we can find a good deal.
35mm , 50mm Summicron and why high ISO is desirable
We all know the legendary sharpness wide open of Leica's 35mm and 50mm Summicron lenses. The bad thing is they are f2.0 and in low light, that is a problem. Now imagine we can use high ISO's with these lenses much the way we can with the top of the line Canon and nikon pro gear. here, we can expand the usefulness of these lenses in all lighting conditions, exploit their best features (resolution, color, etc,,,) and also benefit from their compact size. This is a no brainer and anyone who thinks there is a future in digital M photography will understand high ISO and dynamic range are many times important than increasing the megapixels in the M9 sensor for the M10.
Yes, we can use faster lenses that are larger in size etc,,, and yes, f1.2, f1.0 offer unique bokeh (I have a Noctilux AND 35MM F1.2 Nokton and use them in low light with my M8 with great results, but I wish I could push the lenses more with tremendous high ISO) but not everyone has the money for fast lenses and even some of us who do sometimes want to leave the heavy stuff at home and go compact while walking around. Great high ISO would make things easier.
Some of you will say if you want high ISO go buy a Nikon or Canon. That is fine to say but for those of us who put a sizable investment in Leica M mount lenses, many of us are in no financial mood to buy whole other systems with lenses, especialy with bils to pay. Some will say if you buy Leica you can afford it. Some of us have limited funds and use Leica because we love the form factor, rangefinder and lenses and the look they create and buy on ebay or anywhere else we can find a good deal.
Shade
Well-known
I would agree that a better performance in the ISO 2500 and perhaps an increased performance to 3200 and 6400 would be a real deal for me. I wouldn't need anything higher than that.
Where did Ricoh make their sensor by the way?
Where did Ricoh make their sensor by the way?
randolph45
Well-known
mana from heaven
mana from heaven
Big smile here.Prices for early generation 1Ds and 1D will be droping
in the near future as pros pick up the 1Dx
uh oh serious GAS attack forming
mana from heaven
Big smile here.Prices for early generation 1Ds and 1D will be droping
in the near future as pros pick up the 1Dx
uh oh serious GAS attack forming
Last edited:
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Good ISO performance at 3200 and usable at 6400 would be all the M10 would need to bring it up to scratch IMO ... if they can do this and keep the price about the same I may bite when the time comes.
There's plenty of fast lenses in M mount out there and no one in their right mind uses a rangefinder for 'serious' sports photography!
There's plenty of fast lenses in M mount out there and no one in their right mind uses a rangefinder for 'serious' sports photography!
gavinlg
Veteran
Sony, AFAIK
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I must be a nut case. Iso 160 or 80 regularly sees me run out of shutter speed when I want to keep my lens at optimum aperture. Far more often than I need high Iso. And don't say ND - filter on- filter off, highly unpractical. I would love to have ISO 25..
f16sunshine
Moderator
Now your talking!
rogerzilla
Well-known
I'd be quite happy with 1600 tops, given I haven't used anything faster than 400 for 20 years.
Turtle
Veteran
I agree. I am tempted by the M9 now but know I shoot quite a bit with my 5D II at f 1.4 and 3200 and up. The files are pretty darned good and I know the M9's are nowhere close. One to two more stops will make all the difference.
This 1D X looks tremendous and I personally think they have done the right thing by focusing on performance areas other than MP.
This 1D X looks tremendous and I personally think they have done the right thing by focusing on performance areas other than MP.
Good ISO performance at 3200 and usable at 6400 would be all the M10 would need to bring it up to scratch IMO ... if they can do this and keep the price about the same I may bite when the time comes.