kunihiko
Member
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I'd say it's a 50/1.4. At the current price ($219 USD) it's a fairly good deal if it's a good lens. The images of it are a wee bit too poor for my tastes if I were bidding. I can't make out the ending date/time so I don't know much about what it's likely to do from here.
Hope this helps & wish I remembered more of the Japanese I used to know.
William
Hope this helps & wish I remembered more of the Japanese I used to know.
William
back alley
IMAGES
'What is this ?'
some really poor pics of maybe a 50/1.4
i don't think i'd bid on that auction.
some really poor pics of maybe a 50/1.4
i don't think i'd bid on that auction.
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Quite an interesting mystery! We all know that, officially, the fastest Canon 35mm lens in LTM was an f/1.5, not f/1.4, and of course that lens looks somewhat different from the one pictured -- for one thing, it has no infinity lock, and for another, the focusing ring is more deeply scalloped, as seen in this picture from the Canon Camera Museum website:
So what DO we have there? Well, it strikes me as odd that the lister never shows us a straightforward clear picture of the lens with all its markings: the photo of the front rim is blurry and the focal length and aperture markings are in shadow; the side view, showing the f/1.4 marking on the aperture ring, was taken with a fisheye lens so it's difficult to judge the proportions of the lens barrel.
The style of lettering on the aperture ring, and the design of the infinity lock and knurling, look exactly like those of the 50mm f/1.4 lens... and yet, in the front view, the front element is smaller than that of the 50/1.4; it does look much more like the front of the 35/1.5. And again in the side view, the infrared focusing mark is not in the right place for a 50/1.4, where the mark would be between the f/5.6 and f/8 positions; it IS in the correct place for a 35mm lens, as you can see by comparing the "R" mark position to that of the lens pictured above.
So, we've either got a 35/1.5 lens on which someone has added (either mechanically or digitally) a 50/1.4-style infinity lock and aperture ring... or else some little-known prototype lens that's not shown in the Dechert book, or on the Canon Camera Museum website! (I couldn't check Peter Kitchingman's Canon lens website as his site is still down.)
If you find out more, please post!!
So what DO we have there? Well, it strikes me as odd that the lister never shows us a straightforward clear picture of the lens with all its markings: the photo of the front rim is blurry and the focal length and aperture markings are in shadow; the side view, showing the f/1.4 marking on the aperture ring, was taken with a fisheye lens so it's difficult to judge the proportions of the lens barrel.
The style of lettering on the aperture ring, and the design of the infinity lock and knurling, look exactly like those of the 50mm f/1.4 lens... and yet, in the front view, the front element is smaller than that of the 50/1.4; it does look much more like the front of the 35/1.5. And again in the side view, the infrared focusing mark is not in the right place for a 50/1.4, where the mark would be between the f/5.6 and f/8 positions; it IS in the correct place for a 35mm lens, as you can see by comparing the "R" mark position to that of the lens pictured above.
So, we've either got a 35/1.5 lens on which someone has added (either mechanically or digitally) a 50/1.4-style infinity lock and aperture ring... or else some little-known prototype lens that's not shown in the Dechert book, or on the Canon Camera Museum website! (I couldn't check Peter Kitchingman's Canon lens website as his site is still down.)
If you find out more, please post!!
kunihiko
Member
Umm... the "R" mark position is interesting. The seller is saying that there is no marking of focal length and aperture in front. He/she does know what the 50mm f1.4 looks like and says this one has shorter focussing ring.
I've just bought a 35mm lens. If not I would see this in my hands.
I've just bought a 35mm lens. If not I would see this in my hands.
kunihiko
Member
I just tossed a question and got a quick reply. The seller said that he's shot some with this and this is a 35mm lens, not a 50mm. It was confirmed by him/her that there are no marking of focal length and aperture in front.
A replaced aperture ring is possible, but what about the "R" mark in the DOF markings with "1.4".
...interesting.
A replaced aperture ring is possible, but what about the "R" mark in the DOF markings with "1.4".
...interesting.
Last edited:
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi .
This looks like the first version of the 1.4. From the canon camera museum http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/s/data/s_50_14v1.html
The red R can be seen on there in exactley the same place and is on my second version. I always thought it was the IR mark?
Kim
This looks like the first version of the 1.4. From the canon camera museum http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/s/data/s_50_14v1.html
The red R can be seen on there in exactley the same place and is on my second version. I always thought it was the IR mark?
Kim
kunihiko said:
kunihiko
Member
Hi Kim,
The red "R" of this unidentified lens is seen between "2.8" and "5.6" as jlw pointed out.
Both of 50mm f/1.4 typeI and typeII have it between "5.6" and "8". And, they don't have "2.8" marking.
50mm f/1.4 typeI and typeII - 1.4, 4, 5.6, R, 8, 11,...
35mm f/1.5 - 1.5, 2.8, R, 5.6, 8,...
This is because 35mm has deeper DOF than 50mm.
and this ??lens - 1.4, 2.8, R, 5.6, 8,...
The red "R" of this unidentified lens is seen between "2.8" and "5.6" as jlw pointed out.
Both of 50mm f/1.4 typeI and typeII have it between "5.6" and "8". And, they don't have "2.8" marking.
50mm f/1.4 typeI and typeII - 1.4, 4, 5.6, R, 8, 11,...
35mm f/1.5 - 1.5, 2.8, R, 5.6, 8,...
This is because 35mm has deeper DOF than 50mm.
and this ??lens - 1.4, 2.8, R, 5.6, 8,...
taffer
void
The focus ring is a lot narrower, and the front element of a 50/1.4 would be a lot bigger, there's a lot of room between this one and the edge of the barrel.
Could this be the lost link of Canon 35mm lenses, a pre-production attempt ?
And where is Joe and why is this lens not already in his hands !??
Could this be the lost link of Canon 35mm lenses, a pre-production attempt ?
And where is Joe and why is this lens not already in his hands !??
Kim Coxon
Moderator
No day ia a bad day if you learn something new. Today can't be a bad day!
John Shriver
Well-known
Looking at my Canon 35mm f:1.8 lens, that depth of focus scale is exactly correct for a lens of 35mm focal length. I set 3.5 feet just to the right of the index mark, and 4 feet lands right on 5.6 on the depth-of-focus scale.
Must be a prototype. Something one might actually find in Japan.
Must be a prototype. Something one might actually find in Japan.
back alley
IMAGES
i think it says no international shipping.
Sonnar2
Well-known
The 35/1.5 has an infinity lock
taffer
void
back alley said:
I was just kidding
CanonRFinder
Well-known
HI All,
Jim Bielecki sent me an email in regards to this 35mm f/1.4 lens. Off hand I would say it is a Prototype lens for the following main reasons. All of Canon’s M39 mount lenses NEVER had a seven digit serial number (can someone get me the #). When Canon were mucking around with Prototype lenses they usually began the serial numbers, either with the focal length of the lens or its aperture number, i.e., #253502 which was for the 25mm f/3.5 lens and was the 2nd lens in the prototype run or #1806 which was for the 35mm f/1.8 or f1.8 and the 6th lens in the prototype run. I have had confirmation from a Japanese ex Canon employee that Canon only ever made 9 or 10 lenses when making Prototype lenses. If anyone has the 1956 Jacobs Deschin’s book on Canon, he has illustrations of quite a few Prototype lenses, as the serial numbers of these lenses never matched my database. I have checked the look of this 35mm f/1.4 lens against some lenses in my collection which were a 35mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.5, 35mm f/2.8 and the 50mm f/1.4, all have focusing levers. The sheen on this 35mm f/1.4 lens is glossy satin chrome and is consistent with lenses produced before 1958 but after that date it was a flat grayish sheen. The 35mm f/1.5 was released in 8/1958, the 35mm f/1.8 all had black aperture rings but the closest to this particular 35mm f/1.4 is the 35mm f/2.8. So at a guess I would place this lens between 1957-1958 and also I think that Canon were developing this lens to replace the 35mm f/1.8 lens but eventually settled on the 35mm f/1.5 lens. The 35mm f/1.4 lens would have been another feather in Canon cap as it would have been quite a hit because at the time it would have been the fastest wide angle lens around but I could be wrong there. Pity it is not the USA eBay site as I would have bid on it but at this time I already own one Prototype lens, a 35mm f/1.8 #1803 and that came from eBay USA. In regards to my website. My son who hosts it has just moved form Vancouver to “sunny” Melbourne in OZ and it will another month before it gets back on line, once he gets all his gear form Canada. On the long overdue Canon RF Lens book. All the research and editorial has been completed and the design layout has been finalized and am in the throws of organizing all the pics and placing them into there respective positions. There will be lots of pics to illustrate the various lenses or what I can get hold of; I don’t have all the lenses TYPES but have most. The cover has yet to be done but I have an idea for it.
I must admit when I get a chance in between the book, earning $$$, renovating a house, traveling(a lot) and entertaining, every now and then I have a gander at the RF Rangefinder Forum and what its up to. Cheers Peter “CanonRFinder”
Jim Bielecki sent me an email in regards to this 35mm f/1.4 lens. Off hand I would say it is a Prototype lens for the following main reasons. All of Canon’s M39 mount lenses NEVER had a seven digit serial number (can someone get me the #). When Canon were mucking around with Prototype lenses they usually began the serial numbers, either with the focal length of the lens or its aperture number, i.e., #253502 which was for the 25mm f/3.5 lens and was the 2nd lens in the prototype run or #1806 which was for the 35mm f/1.8 or f1.8 and the 6th lens in the prototype run. I have had confirmation from a Japanese ex Canon employee that Canon only ever made 9 or 10 lenses when making Prototype lenses. If anyone has the 1956 Jacobs Deschin’s book on Canon, he has illustrations of quite a few Prototype lenses, as the serial numbers of these lenses never matched my database. I have checked the look of this 35mm f/1.4 lens against some lenses in my collection which were a 35mm f/1.8, 35mm f/1.5, 35mm f/2.8 and the 50mm f/1.4, all have focusing levers. The sheen on this 35mm f/1.4 lens is glossy satin chrome and is consistent with lenses produced before 1958 but after that date it was a flat grayish sheen. The 35mm f/1.5 was released in 8/1958, the 35mm f/1.8 all had black aperture rings but the closest to this particular 35mm f/1.4 is the 35mm f/2.8. So at a guess I would place this lens between 1957-1958 and also I think that Canon were developing this lens to replace the 35mm f/1.8 lens but eventually settled on the 35mm f/1.5 lens. The 35mm f/1.4 lens would have been another feather in Canon cap as it would have been quite a hit because at the time it would have been the fastest wide angle lens around but I could be wrong there. Pity it is not the USA eBay site as I would have bid on it but at this time I already own one Prototype lens, a 35mm f/1.8 #1803 and that came from eBay USA. In regards to my website. My son who hosts it has just moved form Vancouver to “sunny” Melbourne in OZ and it will another month before it gets back on line, once he gets all his gear form Canada. On the long overdue Canon RF Lens book. All the research and editorial has been completed and the design layout has been finalized and am in the throws of organizing all the pics and placing them into there respective positions. There will be lots of pics to illustrate the various lenses or what I can get hold of; I don’t have all the lenses TYPES but have most. The cover has yet to be done but I have an idea for it.
I must admit when I get a chance in between the book, earning $$$, renovating a house, traveling(a lot) and entertaining, every now and then I have a gander at the RF Rangefinder Forum and what its up to. Cheers Peter “CanonRFinder”
Thanks for the input Peter. I, as I am sure most of us do, look forward to your book.
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Protoype Lenses
Protoype Lenses
Hi All,
Here is a "teaser" from my book and it is to do with the Prototypes Lenses that Canon produced and the subject at hand.
PROTOTYPE LENSES
Like most other manufacturers, Canon produced prototype lenses for testing and evaluation. It is difficult to estimate whether Canon’s method of identifying its prototype lens is unique. When I first began to collect Canon RF serial numbers, however, some numbers seemed to be out of synch with the general trend.
At first I thought that the pictures of some lenses had been altered to hide the correct serial numbers. However, upon a closer examination I noticed that Canon sometimes used the focal length or smallest aperture size of a particular lens as part of its serial number (i.e., a 25mm f/3.5 prototype lens appearing in a Canon lenses brochure has the serial number #25353). The Canon 25mm f/3.5 lens, which was being sold commercially, had its serial numbers beginning with #10001. To date, the highest numbered 25mm lens recorded is lens #17647. The ID on the front of this lens changed in the beginning of 1961.
It has been confirmed by an expert on Canon Inc. in Japan that the company kept the first nine or ten lenses for testing and evaluation. In Deschin’s Canon photography, a number of lenses don’t agree with my database: 25mm f/3.5 (#25356), 28mm f/2.8 (#2809), 35mm f/1.8 (#1806), 50mm f/1.2 (#50129), and 50mm f/1.8 (#18001). All these lenses were introduced simultaneously with the new Model VT camera in April 1956. To me this indicates that Deschin had access to some prototype and very early lenses such as the 50mm f/1.8 lens with serial #200002. This new, lightweight chrome and black alloy 50mm f/1.8 and the new 50mm f/1.2 lens were issued as the standard lenses for the new Model VT camera. Canon introduced a new serial numbering sequence with the 50mm f/1.8 lens beginning with #200001.
Canon’s earliest prototype lens, the Seiki Kogaku Serenar 5cm f/3.5 #10001, appears in an IID and IVSB camera instruction book dated July 1953, even though this serial number appears as part of the normal range between the first recorded 5cm f/3.5 lens #8011 and the last recorded lens #23930. Thus, lens #10001 should have had “Canon Camera Co” on the front ID ring, not “Seiki Kogaku.” Another SK Serenar 5cm f/3.5 lens, #10002, appears in Ueyama’s Canon, which deals with the Seiki Kogaku era.
The 35mm f/3.2 lens also has an unusual prototype serial number, #65001. My feeling is that Canon intended to use this serial number and sequence when releasing the lens for sale in July 1951. However, Canon may have realised that this number encroached on the already released 35mm f/3.5 sequence of serial numbers. So, Canon began the sequence of the new lens at #67001.
Cheers
Peter
Protoype Lenses
Hi All,
Here is a "teaser" from my book and it is to do with the Prototypes Lenses that Canon produced and the subject at hand.
PROTOTYPE LENSES
Like most other manufacturers, Canon produced prototype lenses for testing and evaluation. It is difficult to estimate whether Canon’s method of identifying its prototype lens is unique. When I first began to collect Canon RF serial numbers, however, some numbers seemed to be out of synch with the general trend.
At first I thought that the pictures of some lenses had been altered to hide the correct serial numbers. However, upon a closer examination I noticed that Canon sometimes used the focal length or smallest aperture size of a particular lens as part of its serial number (i.e., a 25mm f/3.5 prototype lens appearing in a Canon lenses brochure has the serial number #25353). The Canon 25mm f/3.5 lens, which was being sold commercially, had its serial numbers beginning with #10001. To date, the highest numbered 25mm lens recorded is lens #17647. The ID on the front of this lens changed in the beginning of 1961.
It has been confirmed by an expert on Canon Inc. in Japan that the company kept the first nine or ten lenses for testing and evaluation. In Deschin’s Canon photography, a number of lenses don’t agree with my database: 25mm f/3.5 (#25356), 28mm f/2.8 (#2809), 35mm f/1.8 (#1806), 50mm f/1.2 (#50129), and 50mm f/1.8 (#18001). All these lenses were introduced simultaneously with the new Model VT camera in April 1956. To me this indicates that Deschin had access to some prototype and very early lenses such as the 50mm f/1.8 lens with serial #200002. This new, lightweight chrome and black alloy 50mm f/1.8 and the new 50mm f/1.2 lens were issued as the standard lenses for the new Model VT camera. Canon introduced a new serial numbering sequence with the 50mm f/1.8 lens beginning with #200001.
Canon’s earliest prototype lens, the Seiki Kogaku Serenar 5cm f/3.5 #10001, appears in an IID and IVSB camera instruction book dated July 1953, even though this serial number appears as part of the normal range between the first recorded 5cm f/3.5 lens #8011 and the last recorded lens #23930. Thus, lens #10001 should have had “Canon Camera Co” on the front ID ring, not “Seiki Kogaku.” Another SK Serenar 5cm f/3.5 lens, #10002, appears in Ueyama’s Canon, which deals with the Seiki Kogaku era.
The 35mm f/3.2 lens also has an unusual prototype serial number, #65001. My feeling is that Canon intended to use this serial number and sequence when releasing the lens for sale in July 1951. However, Canon may have realised that this number encroached on the already released 35mm f/3.5 sequence of serial numbers. So, Canon began the sequence of the new lens at #67001.
Cheers
Peter
W
wlewisiii
Guest
This place is amazing. I love how much I can learn without even trying. Good to know your book is coming; I've got Mr. Dechert's on order and between the two I'll be a happy camper. Thank you!
William
William
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Here is a list of the books that I think would satisfy any Canon RF collector and maybe a user can get something out of them
1.Peter Dechert's "Canon Rangefinder Cameras 1933-68". Canon lenses actually go from 1945 to 1971.
2.Yoji Miyazaki's "Canon Rangefinders Camera". Has an English section on the cameras, otherwise all in Japanese but great pics of accessories.
3.Ueyama Hayato's " Canon". Deals mainly with the Seiki Kogaku era but ALL in Japanese. Very handy serial # lists at the back and great pics of early gear.
4.Jacob Deschin's "Canon Photography" 1956-57. Great pics of Prototype lenses.
5.John Bairds "History of the Japanese Camera Monograph Collection". Great read on the history of the Japanese Camera manufacture and important sections on Canon inc.
6.Kenneth Tydings, "Canon Guide to 35mm Photography" 1954-58. Some unusual accessories are pictured.
No's 2 & 3 can be difficult to find especially #2 book UNLESS someone in Japan can source them for you. Book #5 is very hard to come by as it is out of print. Book #1 and #5 can be found on eBay fairly regularly especially Peter D's book. #6 is for interest only.
WOW that is three 'POST" within as many hours. Cheers Peter
1.Peter Dechert's "Canon Rangefinder Cameras 1933-68". Canon lenses actually go from 1945 to 1971.
2.Yoji Miyazaki's "Canon Rangefinders Camera". Has an English section on the cameras, otherwise all in Japanese but great pics of accessories.
3.Ueyama Hayato's " Canon". Deals mainly with the Seiki Kogaku era but ALL in Japanese. Very handy serial # lists at the back and great pics of early gear.
4.Jacob Deschin's "Canon Photography" 1956-57. Great pics of Prototype lenses.
5.John Bairds "History of the Japanese Camera Monograph Collection". Great read on the history of the Japanese Camera manufacture and important sections on Canon inc.
6.Kenneth Tydings, "Canon Guide to 35mm Photography" 1954-58. Some unusual accessories are pictured.
No's 2 & 3 can be difficult to find especially #2 book UNLESS someone in Japan can source them for you. Book #5 is very hard to come by as it is out of print. Book #1 and #5 can be found on eBay fairly regularly especially Peter D's book. #6 is for interest only.
WOW that is three 'POST" within as many hours. Cheers Peter
W
wlewisiii
Guest
I'm much more of a user than a collector (can't afford too much and don't want something too pristine to go out with daily.) with 2 of the most common Canon RF's as my cameras (and the IVSb was really abused somewhere along the way. Looks like a dog chewed on the top cover and it took DAG two passes to get it running right - but with an Industar-22 it's one heck of a pocket camera like Oscar imagined ), so I think most of these are outside my needs.
OTOH, I'm going to print out that list and hand it to my used bookseller with the notation that if any of them show up... I really do enjoy learning about the history and circumstances of these marvellous toys. The VT Flash piece on this page http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/design/pioneers/index.html
for example, really fascinates me. I'd rather a V-L, but that's another story...
Thanks!
William
), so I think most of these are outside my needs. OTOH, I'm going to print out that list and hand it to my used bookseller with the notation that if any of them show up...
I really do enjoy learning about the history and circumstances of these marvellous toys. The VT Flash piece on this page http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/design/pioneers/index.htmlfor example, really fascinates me. I'd rather a V-L, but that's another story...
Thanks!
William