CanonRFinder
Well-known
This is not exactly a rangefinder camera but being an early Seiki Kogaku Canon camera, be it a specialist model, I think it would be of interest to others in this forum.Back in late November 06 I was lucky enough to stumble across an auction item in Germany via Auctionteambreker in Koln. I knew about the lens from my research and one in particular is pictured in Ueyama Hayato's all Japanese book on early SK Canon lore. Even to Hayato the lens apparently was a MYSTICAL lens. He mentioned in a letter to me that when he was talking to early ex-employees from SK Canon, the lens came from a Fingerprint Camera. Whether one of these cameras had been seen in Japan is still unknown as I am still waiting for a reply from Hayato but I gather from his earlier reply to my request about the lens he had not seen such a camera.
Anyway I won the auction and still cannot believe I was the only bidder on the item. I think this was due to the obscure description and subject heading of the item in the auction. It came with an equally interesting camera which I will expand on sometime later but it wasn't a Canon item.
Once I received the Seiki Fingerprint Camera # 819 it turns out it took medium format photographs on 120 film.......YEP CANON did make a 6x6 format camera using 120 film and this is from the era between 1939 and 1941. Why can I date it to that period is because the small 75mm f/4.5 lens is marked Seiki Kogaku and does NOT have the "Serenar" name on the lens anywhere. The Serenar name was trademarked in December 1941.
I intend to write an article on the camera for a local OZ camera mag (who pay $$ for articles more than most other mags do) and a UK based journal but this here is the first real description of the camera.
The camera is made up of four separate parts with the two front sections hinged at the base. The front section has a spring released front door. Lift a primitive click stop arm and the front section drops away exposing four small 3.5v screw-in bulbs located on the four corners of the front part of the second section of the outfit. The inside of the front section and around the bulbs is painted silver to reflect the light back into the camera. The second section is opened by pressing a small button underneath the handle. Removing a cover on the back of the second section exposes two chambers which hold six D size batteries, three in each chamber. Once the second section has dropped away it exposes the front of the third section which holds the lens and simple shutter mechanism along with the electrical contacts. On the side of the third section there is a mains socket, so along with the batteries, the unit is totally portable. The mode of power is set by a dial on the side of the unit which can be set for either mains or battery use. The shutter is operated by a lever sticking out on the top to the right of the handle and when moved to the open position a small pan-handle flap drops down exposing the lens and simultaneously it activates a simple electrical contact located in the roof of the chamber. Simple but effective.
The 120 film back is slotted into the back of the third section and when removed exposes the electrical transformer located in the roof of the third section, just above the back of the lens. The film is loaded by removing the back cover and placing the unexposed film roll into the bottom chamber which is then wound on from bottom to top. There is an empty "SAKURA" film spool in place but unsure if they are still making film. Exposure is ready by removing the substantial dark slide. Timing and aperture setting must have been set to a predetermined f/stop and distance measurement
There is another Fingerprint camera featured in Sugiyama's Rosetta Stone Japanese book on page 312 but has no makers name. Another is pictured via this link.
http://www.geocities.com/shioshya/search.html
I am unsure who made the lens 75mm f/4.5 lens whether it be Nikon or Canon or someone else but Canon did in Feb 1939 installed two lens grinding generators, five lens polishers and a checking instruments into the Meguro factory. At the same time Nippon Kogaku transferred Mr Furukawa, a lens designer to Seiki Kogaku. So the lens could well have been made by SK Canon and fitted to these specialist cameras which were used by the Japanese Army in China and Japan. One thing that might point the lens being made by SK is the use of the 'mm' measurement and maybe this was to differentiate from the 'cm' measurement favoured and used by Nikon at the time.
As far as I know Canon only made one other 6x6 camera and that was used on 1968 X-Ray camera.
How a RARE and early camera ended up in an auction in Germany beats me unless it had been imported into Germany sometime in 1941 to be used there BUT I am sure there were similar cameras made in Germany at that time.
Enjoy Peter K.
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Canon 6x6 on 120 film....more pics
Canon 6x6 on 120 film....more pics
Canon 6x6 on 120 film....more pics
Sonnar2
Well-known
Congratulations Peter, what a great find!
Amazing how this camera reached Germany. Maybe there was some exchange of military or police equipment between the two allies during WWII?
On the one hand this camera pretty much looks like a handcrafted piece, contrariwise the number points to a bigger series. Just camouflage?
As for the lens, why shouldn't Canon haven't made it with their hired staff and machines? I would expect this lens (Triplet or Tessar?) wasn't to difficult to craft. Anyway a good finger exercise for later achievements...
cheers, Frank
Amazing how this camera reached Germany. Maybe there was some exchange of military or police equipment between the two allies during WWII?
On the one hand this camera pretty much looks like a handcrafted piece, contrariwise the number points to a bigger series. Just camouflage?
As for the lens, why shouldn't Canon haven't made it with their hired staff and machines? I would expect this lens (Triplet or Tessar?) wasn't to difficult to craft. Anyway a good finger exercise for later achievements...
cheers, Frank
CanonRFinder
Well-known
It is 5cm x 8cm format on 120 film is the correct size. My error, am used to describing 6x6 format.
Some more pics of the camera.
Any Japanese language person maybe able to decipher some of the info on this item. Would appreciate the help.
Some more pics of the camera.
Any Japanese language person maybe able to decipher some of the info on this item. Would appreciate the help.
harry01562
Registered semi-lurker
Congratulations, Pete, on an interesting find. Japan to Germany to Australia, quite a trip for the camera. We'll probably never know why it landed in Germany, too much time has passed. Please keep us informed if you hear anything additional on the lens. Also, is a copy of the book in Japanese useful to the linguistically challenged? I understand it may be expensive and hard to find, as well...
Harry
Harry
CanonRFinder
Well-known
HI Harry,
Ueyama Hayato's book can be found quite easily if that is the one your referring to. Mike Otto at Pacrim Cameras may still have some copies for sale. Miyazaki's book is virtually unobtainable...which is a pity as he worked for Canon during the 50's+. Pics in Hayato's book are plentiful and one can gather what he talking about if you have Peter D's and Miyazaki's book on hand.
The lens has me intrigued and the possible heritage of it even more so but I am working on it. The big mystery is why SK used the "mm" form of measurement when the norm in those days was to use "cm". If SK Canon did make the lens maybe it was to differentiate this lens from the norm at that time after all they did have lens making equipment in place in February 1939 in the Meguro factory and this camera was made between then and December 1941. At the time Canon purchased the lens grinding and polishing machines a lens checker from Nippon Kogaku, Mr Ryouzo Furukawa was transferred to SK to help install the machines and begin lens production.
I am re-reading John Baird's book so will try and get a clearer picture what was happening during the era.
:bang: pass me a Panadol need another pill
More to follow.
Peter K
PS It has been documented that a SK Canon model S with Naval markings may have been given to a German U boat Capitan at one time and ended up in Germany before the owner immigrated back the USA later on. KEH sold it eventually. The model S was produced between 1938 - 45......hummm another thought. P
Ueyama Hayato's book can be found quite easily if that is the one your referring to. Mike Otto at Pacrim Cameras may still have some copies for sale. Miyazaki's book is virtually unobtainable...which is a pity as he worked for Canon during the 50's+. Pics in Hayato's book are plentiful and one can gather what he talking about if you have Peter D's and Miyazaki's book on hand.
The lens has me intrigued and the possible heritage of it even more so but I am working on it. The big mystery is why SK used the "mm" form of measurement when the norm in those days was to use "cm". If SK Canon did make the lens maybe it was to differentiate this lens from the norm at that time after all they did have lens making equipment in place in February 1939 in the Meguro factory and this camera was made between then and December 1941. At the time Canon purchased the lens grinding and polishing machines a lens checker from Nippon Kogaku, Mr Ryouzo Furukawa was transferred to SK to help install the machines and begin lens production.
I am re-reading John Baird's book so will try and get a clearer picture what was happening during the era.
:bang: pass me a Panadol need another pill
More to follow.
Peter K
PS It has been documented that a SK Canon model S with Naval markings may have been given to a German U boat Capitan at one time and ended up in Germany before the owner immigrated back the USA later on. KEH sold it eventually. The model S was produced between 1938 - 45......hummm another thought. P
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
Thanks for sharing the info about this rare find.
You're familiar with the Graflex Fingerprint Camera, right? I couldn't help noticing that the overall design of the Canon is extremely similar, right down to the tapered front housing with the small bulbs in the corners, and the lever-operated pivoted-blade shutter that also switches on the lights. The main difference is that the Graflex is designed for 6x9cm plates (or, later, film holders, presumably) while the Canon camera was designed for roll film -- a logical cost-saver for Japanese police users.
The Graflex dates from 1917, so if the Canon really was made in the period 1939-1941 it's hard to believe that it wasn't a derivative to some extent.
You're familiar with the Graflex Fingerprint Camera, right? I couldn't help noticing that the overall design of the Canon is extremely similar, right down to the tapered front housing with the small bulbs in the corners, and the lever-operated pivoted-blade shutter that also switches on the lights. The main difference is that the Graflex is designed for 6x9cm plates (or, later, film holders, presumably) while the Canon camera was designed for roll film -- a logical cost-saver for Japanese police users.
The Graflex dates from 1917, so if the Canon really was made in the period 1939-1941 it's hard to believe that it wasn't a derivative to some extent.
CanonRFinder
Well-known
HI JLW,
No I didn't know about the Graflex Fingerprint camera (FPC) There is one at the following link but not sure who made it even though it has an Agfa lens inside.
http://www.geocities.com/shioshya/search.html
There is another pictured in the back of Sugiyama's Japanese Bible camera book and all three look similar so the Graflex may just have been the style that they all copied. Have you a link or pic of the Graflex FPC.
peter
No I didn't know about the Graflex Fingerprint camera (FPC) There is one at the following link but not sure who made it even though it has an Agfa lens inside.
http://www.geocities.com/shioshya/search.html
There is another pictured in the back of Sugiyama's Japanese Bible camera book and all three look similar so the Graflex may just have been the style that they all copied. Have you a link or pic of the Graflex FPC.
peter
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
CanonRFinder said:
Stephen ought to do something about the visibility of those links! There was one in my original post -- here it is again: click here for the link.
The link doesn't contain much information on it, though. Most of what I know about it is from printed matter -- there was quite an extensive writeup about it in one of Jason Schneider's books. Considering how many Graflex enthusiasts there are around the 'Net, there may be sites with more information.
Also, since these were low-production, specialized cameras, I'm sure there were a lot of minor variations throughout their life. As with many Graflex cameras, the main body construction was of wood, so it would have been possible to make many sizes/formats/variants without expensive retooling.
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Hi,
Sorry I didn't pass the cursor over the message hence it didn't show up but did once I had done that.
Thanks for the link and I can now add a third FPC to my list.
Peter
Sorry I didn't pass the cursor over the message hence it didn't show up but did once I had done that.
Thanks for the link and I can now add a third FPC to my list.
Peter
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Further to my research into the FPC.
I was just Gooogling and came across the following website
http://www.photojpn.org/HIST/hist1.html
I may have narrowed the date of manufacture of the Seiki FPC. In the 1940 (Showa 15) section the author mentions that on the July 7th "ALL camera production was restricted to military purposes only". If this is the case then the Seiki FPC may have been one of the items that SK produced. I don't think that they actually made the body but it is possible but the lens they may well have produced. SO the period I am looking at is between July 1940 and December 1941 when the Serenar name was trademarked.
In Feb 1939 Canon installed two lens grinding curve generators, five lens polishers and a checking instruments into the Meguro factory. At the same time Nippon Kogaku transferred Mr Ryouzo Furukawa, a lens checker at NK to Seiki Kogaku where he did all the designing, grinding and checking of lenses that were produced. The glass was supplied by Osaka Industrial Material Testing Laboratory and not by NK. At the beginning of 1940 Furukawa produced lenses for the X-Ray cameras which SK Canon were making at that time, I presume for Medical use but when the July 7th edict came in then SK Canon would have to change tact. So the Seiki Kogaku 75mm f/4.5 lens could well have been made by SK Canon and fitted to these specialist FPC cameras which were used by the Japanese Army in China and Japan. One thing that might point the lens being made by SK is the use of the 'mm' measurement, maybe this was to differentiate from the 'cm' measurement favoured and used by Nikon at the time. If Canon SK didn't make the lens than why would they purchase a FPC body and place someone elses lens inside. Re-badging is a possiblity but why? Peter
I was just Gooogling and came across the following website
http://www.photojpn.org/HIST/hist1.html
I may have narrowed the date of manufacture of the Seiki FPC. In the 1940 (Showa 15) section the author mentions that on the July 7th "ALL camera production was restricted to military purposes only". If this is the case then the Seiki FPC may have been one of the items that SK produced. I don't think that they actually made the body but it is possible but the lens they may well have produced. SO the period I am looking at is between July 1940 and December 1941 when the Serenar name was trademarked.
In Feb 1939 Canon installed two lens grinding curve generators, five lens polishers and a checking instruments into the Meguro factory. At the same time Nippon Kogaku transferred Mr Ryouzo Furukawa, a lens checker at NK to Seiki Kogaku where he did all the designing, grinding and checking of lenses that were produced. The glass was supplied by Osaka Industrial Material Testing Laboratory and not by NK. At the beginning of 1940 Furukawa produced lenses for the X-Ray cameras which SK Canon were making at that time, I presume for Medical use but when the July 7th edict came in then SK Canon would have to change tact. So the Seiki Kogaku 75mm f/4.5 lens could well have been made by SK Canon and fitted to these specialist FPC cameras which were used by the Japanese Army in China and Japan. One thing that might point the lens being made by SK is the use of the 'mm' measurement, maybe this was to differentiate from the 'cm' measurement favoured and used by Nikon at the time. If Canon SK didn't make the lens than why would they purchase a FPC body and place someone elses lens inside. Re-badging is a possiblity but why? Peter
mjflory
Accumulator
CanonRFinder said:Any Japanese language person maybe able to decipher some of the info on this item. Would appreciate the help.
It's a little hard to make out some of the characters from the picture and the angle -- and my Japanese is so rusty it creaks -- but under the letters "M.D.S." it indicates that the part is used for display... I can't make out anything on the next line. Could it say "two [pole?] electrical..."? I'm really guessing at that "electrical" part (third character might be den, "electrical," but I do see that it says "5A - 10V", and there is a diagram at the bottom that seems to indicate voltages over parts of a circuit). Below that line it says "Tokyo - Nagoya - Osaka". Can't make out the next line at all ("two [something]").
As for the electrical idea, now I see that the very top line is "One [something] 100V 50-60 [cycles]. The line current in the western part of Japan is (or used to be) 100 volts at 50Hz, while in the east it's 110V, 60Hz. The arrows at the top and the bottom seem to be pointing to the input and output of some sort of transformer. I wonder if the "one [something]" and "two [something]" are indications of the waveform of the input and output? Any Japanese electrical engineers here?
-- Michael
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the effort and will try and remove the item from the camera and take a better pic of the plate on the transformer.
I have added another pic that is slightly larger and maybe that will give you a better idea what is on the plate.
Appreciate the help and this is coming from ONE very frustrated researcher who cannot speak any Japanese and tackles a Japanese subject :bang:
Thanks for the effort and will try and remove the item from the camera and take a better pic of the plate on the transformer.
I have added another pic that is slightly larger and maybe that will give you a better idea what is on the plate.
Appreciate the help and this is coming from ONE very frustrated researcher who cannot speak any Japanese and tackles a Japanese subject :bang:
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
The bird above the SEIKI logo reminds me a lot of Nazi symbolism.
Great find either way
Great find either way
Sonnar2
Well-known
Ash said:
Just the same way as German Allianz eagle logo of 1923 has anything to do with Nazi symbolism. The eagle was used by Canon well into the 50's, printed in lens cases as well as in certain cameras, with Canon writing instead of Seiki. AFAIK it's the only kind of "logo" Canon ever had beside its writing. Different to Nikon there was no armament factory history in WWII whatsoever with Canon....
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Sonnar2 said:
It is often forgetten that until June 1941 there was easy and frequent direct communication between Japan and Germany via the Transiberian Railway. Germany shipped a wide range of specimin military hardware and industrial plant east, receiving similar goods and raw materials in return.
From April 1941 to June 1942 12 blockade runners reached axis-occupied ports from Japan, in addition to regular submarine contact by both sides - including transhipment of passengers, which continued - at enormous loss - until almost the end pf the war. Given that a finger-print camera is not exactly a strategic item, I wonder if it was shipped to Germany for use by Japanese officials, possibly preparing travel documents. This would directly parallel practice with similar security equipment. Whatever, I suspect that camera had an interesting life...
Cheers, Ian
CanonRFinder
Well-known
HI Ian,
Thanks for that interesting info and never thought about a rail connection.
Would appreciate the source of the information in regards to pre 1941 and up to 1945 deliveries of gear to Germany and Japan and visa versa via the Transiberian railway. It is something I can refer to when I write about the FP camera.
What do you mean by "Blockade runners"?.
Your date of June 1941 possible narrows the date this FP camera was produced.
Cheers Peter
Thanks for that interesting info and never thought about a rail connection.
Would appreciate the source of the information in regards to pre 1941 and up to 1945 deliveries of gear to Germany and Japan and visa versa via the Transiberian railway. It is something I can refer to when I write about the FP camera.
What do you mean by "Blockade runners"?.
Your date of June 1941 possible narrows the date this FP camera was produced.
Cheers Peter
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
CanonRFinder said:
Until last year, they were. Another piece of historica
Sakura was Konishiroku's film/photo material brand until it became Konica. For years, unti around the middle 1980s (and in certain parts of the world), "Sakura" (cherry blossom) was Konica film. We had Sakura Pan, SakuracolorII, Sakurachrome- and these were relatively inexpensive film, compared to Kodak and Fuji, at least here in Manila.Jay
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
CanonRFinder said:
My Pleasure Peter!
There is a good deal of mythology concerning German-Japanese co-operation during the war. Your most accessible authoritative source will probably be The Oxford Companion to the Second World War (1995): articles Axis Strategy and Co-operation and Blockade Runners - I have scanned the relevant part of the latter (Page 140 - below). It is important to remember that neither party really trusted each other, which may provide a context for the fingerprint camera, if it was sent for Japanese use.
Although German-Japanese trade via the Transiberian is known to have been extensive, there does not seem to be much literature on the subject, presumably because the Nazis destroyed information in the last days of the war and the Soviets preferred to play down their period as an Axis ally. Maritime trade is much better covered. There are two first-class recent books (both links go to reviews, as these feature a lot of quotable information) -
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0JIW/is_4_55/ai_95259491
and
http://stonebooks.com/archives/000618.shtml
There are also some good internet sources.
This Wikipedia article will almost certainly be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese-German_pre-WWII_industrial_co-operation
And here is an excellent article on Japanese-German submarine trade:
http://www.historynet.com/air_sea/amphibious_operationss/3036241.html?featured=y&c=y
A wartime TIME article on the same subject here -
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,885350,00.html
And this French site features a number of unique pictures of IJN personnel in occupied France:
http://piquetjm.free.fr/I28/I29/Mission I29 1944.html
Hope that’s some help!
All the best, Ian
Edit - When I was writing the above I had vague memories of some attempts at direct air communication between Germany and Japan - I looked up the aircraft types in Francillon's "Japanese aircraft and googled - I found this interesting (I think!) discussion - http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/ki77.htm
Excuse me - but I find the by-ways of history fascinating! Ian
Attachments
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CanonRFinder
Well-known
HI Ian,
Wow there are some real interesting links there and have printed out the relevant pages and digesting the info. Only trouble is I better not go off on a tangent which I can do so easily.
I have done some more research on the early SK Canon lens making and have come to the conclusion on a few things. One is that Nippon Kogaku never supplied SK Canon any raw glass for there lens making but only lenses in a finished form that SK Canon made into lenses for all there pre-war and some post war cameras. I will elaborate on that once I have the article done.
Maybe I should start a new thread on this?
Thanks again for going to the trouble of sending the links.
Cheers
Peter
Wow there are some real interesting links there and have printed out the relevant pages and digesting the info. Only trouble is I better not go off on a tangent which I can do so easily.
I have done some more research on the early SK Canon lens making and have come to the conclusion on a few things. One is that Nippon Kogaku never supplied SK Canon any raw glass for there lens making but only lenses in a finished form that SK Canon made into lenses for all there pre-war and some post war cameras. I will elaborate on that once I have the article done.
Maybe I should start a new thread on this?
Thanks again for going to the trouble of sending the links.
Cheers
Peter