leif e
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Hi! I´ve never owned a Canon camera in my life - there were Minoltas in the beginning, before the Nikons took over. Then; later in life I´ve really warmed to rangefinders. (I did own two CLEs once, but traded them for money and a FM2). Now; I find myself in love with the looks of the Canon P and 7. (AND there is annother minor point, I´m afraid; the ultra-cool image one of them would loan my character. I would definitely not carry a Canon RF very well hidden ...).
Important, though, is which one is the best camera, the best buy? I´m not worried about paint or dents, but very keen on functionality and accuracy. I hear the shutter of the P is a problem (or; can be). Is the 7 better? The P is the looker of the two, but what about the viewer? I hear glasses and the P don´t get along too well. What about the 7? Does the 7 have the same frames as the P? 35, 50 & 100?
Am I just a gadget-geek here, or am I on to something good?
leif e
... on a gorgeus, cold Norwegian February morning. I had to put up some real strength not to photograph the sunrise today. But I stood my ground.
Important, though, is which one is the best camera, the best buy? I´m not worried about paint or dents, but very keen on functionality and accuracy. I hear the shutter of the P is a problem (or; can be). Is the 7 better? The P is the looker of the two, but what about the viewer? I hear glasses and the P don´t get along too well. What about the 7? Does the 7 have the same frames as the P? 35, 50 & 100?
Am I just a gadget-geek here, or am I on to something good?
leif e
... on a gorgeus, cold Norwegian February morning. I had to put up some real strength not to photograph the sunrise today. But I stood my ground.
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leif e said:
The answer to this questions depends on your actions. It sounds to me that you need to buy both because one is not better than the other per say, just different.
The shutter is the same on both. The "problem" is the stainless steel curtains will dent/crinkle. Does not look nice, but rarely a problem. The curtains can be replaced.
I prefer the Canon 7 with its projected framelines. The meter works on mine, as it does on better than half of them out there IF they were kept in their case.
The Canon P is the prettier of the two. It also goes for about $100 more in similar condition.
If you need to use an accessory finder for wider-than-35mm lenses, the Canon 7 is a pain as it does not have a shoe.
Forgot to add that Venus rising over the Potomac was beautiful this morning.
I prefer the Canon 7 with its projected framelines. The meter works on mine, as it does on better than half of them out there IF they were kept in their case.
The Canon P is the prettier of the two. It also goes for about $100 more in similar condition.
If you need to use an accessory finder for wider-than-35mm lenses, the Canon 7 is a pain as it does not have a shoe.
Forgot to add that Venus rising over the Potomac was beautiful this morning.
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taffer
void
Hard to tell, as Rover said above, it's a very personal thing so it would help if you could hold both in your hands and play a bit with them. I know that may be way difficult unless you have a pretty well assorted classic camera store near 
The 7 is overall a bigger camera, and for some reason when using it I get the impression than it's even bigger than it is.
Glasses are a bit of pain for both, but on the P they usually mean the 35 framelines won't be too visible for you. OTH framelines are there to guide you, they are not a contract
The 7 has framelines for 35-50-85/100-135. I must say I prefer the finder and framelines on the 7, the finder has a bluish tint which I like for its contrast with the RF patch.
Both are great user cameras, but as Brian said, you won't have a shoe for the 15mm finder on the 7. The Ultron could look great on it though.
Oscar
The 7 is overall a bigger camera, and for some reason when using it I get the impression than it's even bigger than it is.
Glasses are a bit of pain for both, but on the P they usually mean the 35 framelines won't be too visible for you. OTH framelines are there to guide you, they are not a contract
The 7 has framelines for 35-50-85/100-135. I must say I prefer the finder and framelines on the 7, the finder has a bluish tint which I like for its contrast with the RF patch.
Both are great user cameras, but as Brian said, you won't have a shoe for the 15mm finder on the 7. The Ultron could look great on it though.
Oscar
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Out of curiosity, what's the finder magnification on the 7? I can't remember.
taffer
void
I think it's .7 or .8
The magnification on a Canon 7 is 0.8x.
The Canon P is 1x.
And on the Canon VI, 0.65x for 35mm, 1.0x for 50 and 100, and 1.5x for 135.
Just to add confusion. The VI-L is the same size as the Canon P.
The Canon P is 1x.
And on the Canon VI, 0.65x for 35mm, 1.0x for 50 and 100, and 1.5x for 135.
Just to add confusion. The VI-L is the same size as the Canon P.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Canon 7 has 0.8x viewfinder.
IMHO this makes the most important difference to the P, which has a 1.0x, allowing you to shot with both eyes open (but to big for precise 35mm framing).
Both cameras are cool. If you use 50mm as a main standard, prefer the P. If you use 35mm more often, a 7 would be more comfortable. But if you want to use 28mm or shorter, the P is better because you don't need an accessory coupler to attach the finder. If you prefer 85mm over 100mm, buy the 7. Thick eyeglasses: 7.
The Rangefinder effective baselength is quite indifferent. What is "clearer" depends how well a certain camera has aged.
The P with an attached Canon-Meter has the same weight as the 7 with inbuild selenium-meter. Both quite precise, if still working works the same way. Both have the same baseplate size. The P has a sleek line but is slightly longer, and weights more than a Leica-M.
Regardless if you buy a 7 or P, you can't go wrong. If you used it for a while you will feel a wish to own the other one. No thing you can do against it. Be careful!
cheers, Frank
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Canon_Main.html
IMHO this makes the most important difference to the P, which has a 1.0x, allowing you to shot with both eyes open (but to big for precise 35mm framing).
Both cameras are cool. If you use 50mm as a main standard, prefer the P. If you use 35mm more often, a 7 would be more comfortable. But if you want to use 28mm or shorter, the P is better because you don't need an accessory coupler to attach the finder. If you prefer 85mm over 100mm, buy the 7. Thick eyeglasses: 7.
The Rangefinder effective baselength is quite indifferent. What is "clearer" depends how well a certain camera has aged.
The P with an attached Canon-Meter has the same weight as the 7 with inbuild selenium-meter. Both quite precise, if still working works the same way. Both have the same baseplate size. The P has a sleek line but is slightly longer, and weights more than a Leica-M.
Regardless if you buy a 7 or P, you can't go wrong. If you used it for a while you will feel a wish to own the other one. No thing you can do against it. Be careful!
cheers, Frank
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Canon_Main.html
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simonankor
Registered Addict
Conveniently, I was thinking of selling my P with its 50/1.8... It is a beautiful camera, it would be good to see it go to someone who would use it well. Mine is in very good condition, only the tiniest of tiny shutter wrinkles. However the bezel over the rangefinder window is missing. Otherwise perfectly functional and beautiful.
Let me know if you are interested!
Mine is in very good condition, only the tiniest of tiny shutter wrinkles. However the bezel over the rangefinder window is missing. Otherwise perfectly functional and beautiful.Let me know if you are interested!
ChrisN
Striving
Sonnar2 said:
On my scales the P weighs in at 19 3/4 ounces (about 614gm), and the M4 at 21 Ounces (about 653gm). So I think the M4, at least, is slightly heavier than the P.
Sonnar2 said:
That's certainly true!
caila77
Well-known
I prefer tha P model, very nice to use with great feeling (better than / for me).
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Hello,
I can't really offer anything more than has already been said. My choice was for a bargain 7 from KEH. The one I have does have a wrinkled shutter (but that has no practial effect) and a bit of use wear but was a great deal. The meter works, the VF is a delight for me with the 35 line fully visible when I am wearing my glasses, and it just feels like a classic camera should. Good luck! With a bit of patience, you can find really good deals on both cameras and either of them will give you a great experiance.
William
I can't really offer anything more than has already been said. My choice was for a bargain 7 from KEH. The one I have does have a wrinkled shutter (but that has no practial effect) and a bit of use wear but was a great deal. The meter works, the VF is a delight for me with the 35 line fully visible when I am wearing my glasses, and it just feels like a classic camera should. Good luck! With a bit of patience, you can find really good deals on both cameras and either of them will give you a great experiance.
William
VinceC
Veteran
If you think you'll want to use telephotos at some point, the 1:1 finder on the P would make it easier to focus and compose with a 100mm lens. Also, with a 35mm lens and 1:1 finder on the P, if you shoot with your right eye, you can keep both eyes open. This can make framing much easier for those with eyeglasses. Shooting a rangefinder with both eyes open is also the epitome of cool. (Left eyed shooters can be this cool if they shoot mainly verticals.)
back alley
IMAGES
for cool...it's the p...all the way!!
leif e
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I´m leaning towards the P ..
I´m leaning towards the P ..
Thanks to you all! A lot of sound advice. If there´s one thing that´ll make my decision easier, it´s the P´s shoe. I´d love to use my 15mm on the new camera.
So; Simonankor, I´m definitely interested. Money is an issue, though. What´s your price?
I´m leaning towards the P ..
simonankor said:Conveniently, I was thinking of selling my P with its 50/1.8... It is a beautiful camera, it would be good to see it go to someone who would use it well.
Let me know if you are interested!
Thanks to you all! A lot of sound advice. If there´s one thing that´ll make my decision easier, it´s the P´s shoe. I´d love to use my 15mm on the new camera.
So; Simonankor, I´m definitely interested. Money is an issue, though. What´s your price?
Sonnar2
Well-known
Chris, the M4 weights more? That's dense!
And Vince, you're right. The P is a true reporter's classic. M3 can't do better...
And Vince, you're right. The P is a true reporter's classic. M3 can't do better...
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Brian Sweeney said:
Hrm. So as an eyeglass wearer I should probably invest in a VI as a second body for 35mm and 135mm lenses. That's helpful, thanks.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Not for sure. The V/VI/L have smaller eyepieces made of metal that don't like eyeglasses. The P has rounded hard plastic and is bigger. The finder area also lacks the bulge backwards to place the more complicated finder optics. The backside of a P is just straight. My eyeglasses aren't too thick, and I'm more comfortable with the P when fast picture taking is required. The 7 also has a metal eyepiece that scratches glasses.
cheers Frank
cheers Frank
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
I can either make or find some kind of rubber cover for the metal eyepiece, can't I?
Bill58
Native Texan
IMHO you need a accessory VF to use a 35 on the P--I did and it works better--esp. w/ glasses. W/ a 50, it's great w/o VF. Overall, however, you'll be happier w/ the P and it has better re-sale value too.