Canon LTM Canon 7s or Canon P ?

Canon M39 M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
lawrence said:
Personally I think the P is overrated. Unlike with the 7, the 35mm framelines are unusable if you wear glasses and it doesn't have the wide range of other framelines that the 7 has. Also, I think the 7 finder is brighter and contrastier. If you want a funky camera, go for an L rather than a P -- if you want a great user camera go for a 7. The P falls between them.
Click to expand...

The P is regarded by many as one of the best looking Canon rangefinder cameras, and it is also reputed to have an excellent viewfinder. Many photographers simply like the P, and this has driven up its price. I gave up on getting another P and got a VI-L, which also is a great camera with a very useful viewfinder. Dante has a good write-up on it.
 
On cameraquest, I'm reading: "The finder is 1:1 life size and parallax corrected, with always visible built in frames for the 35/50/100 lenses." for the Canon P ... Does it mean that you see all 3 frames at the same time ? I wish they could be independent ... Could someone tell me ?

fred
 
"Parallax correction" vs"Auto-Parallax Correction". The first means little lines permanantly etched with the main frames to be used as a guide when at close range. The Canon P uses those, as does my Nikon S3. "Auto-Parallax correction" means that the framelines moves as you focus, to indicate the image that will be captured. The Canon 7, Nikon SP, Leica M's, and others use this more accurate method. THE BEST is variable framelines that change size as you focus, to indicate much more closely the area that will be captured. The Konica S2 and Polaroid 180 (and others with Zeiss finder) use this method. I do not know a specific name for the latter.

The Canon P, like my Nikon S3, has all the lines up at once. It is more cluttered than the Canon 7 finder.

The Nikon SP is an interesting variation, you switch in framelines going from 50mm to 135mm. It leaves the outer framelines up. So if I'm using an 8.5cm lens the 5cm lines are still up. You get a "tunnel affect", always use the smallest lines in the VF, but can help decide to swap lenses. The lines on the SP are different colors for each Focal Length. The Canon 7 finder compares well with the SP, and it is 1/5th the price.
 
Last edited:
In my experience the 7 finder is the best in the Canon range -- bright, contrasty, uncluttered and without excessive magnification. And, as Brian says, it has Auto parallax correction. By comparison the P's finder is not so good, particularly if you wear glasses as you cannot see the 35mm frame lines (you can with the 7). The main problems with the 7 are the meter (often it's not working) and the lack of a bult-in accessory shoe.
 
"The P is regarded by many as one of the best looking Canon rangefinder cameras..."

But not as good-looking as the L ;)
 
That's interesting how tall the VI-t is compared to my L1 -- I mean it looks slightly taller than the 7! How do you get on with the trigger wind? I've always thought they must be a bit slow to use, although I've never owned/used one...
 
lawrence said:
In my experience the 7 finder is the best in the Canon range -- bright, contrasty, uncluttered and without excessive magnification. And, as Brian says, it has Auto parallax correction. By comparison the P's finder is not so good, particularly if you wear glasses as you cannot see the 35mm frame lines (you can with the 7). The main problems with the 7 are the meter (often it's not working) and the lack of a bult-in accessory shoe.
Click to expand...

All true, but keep in mind that the original poster was asking about the P vs. the 7s.

The s has the same framelines as the plain 7, but it DOES have an accessory shoe, and its CdS meter is both more sensitive and much more likely to be working than the 7's selenium meter.
 
KEH repair told me that they hardly ever see a Canon 7 with workable meter, and that they couldn't usually fix them. They said they might be able to assemble one from parts, on special order, but that would be expensive. I'd asked.

I've seen posts from hobbiests who claim to create new meters inside the Canon 7 housing...if they could develop an easy plug-in module they'd probably sell a few.

If a person wants a modern CV meter the P accommodates, unlike the 7, though I've read that they fall off and get lost, presumably due to the often-loose accessory shoe that I've been grumbling about.
 
I'd say get the Canon P. I'm not a fan of built-in meters on vintage rangefinders. The 7s will have the advantage of projected, not reflected framelines. In addition to the previously mentioned external bayonet mount, it comes with a wider RF base, and a set of framelines for the 135 focal length. I'd still go with the P, if it is in good condition.

Now what was the original question?
 
VI's & 7 sizes

VI's & 7 sizes

lawrence said:
That's interesting how tall the VI-t is compared to my L1 -- I mean it looks slightly taller than the 7! How do you get on with the trigger wind? I've always thought they must be a bit slow to use, although I've never owned/used one...
Click to expand...

And it's quite surprising how much smaller the VI-L looks compared to the VI-T, with no additional height required for the parked trigger wind - compare the silver base heights on this quick VI-L v 7 (not S) attachment, to Brian's previous VI-T v 7 image
 
Is that a J-12 mounted to a V-L or is it a VI-L?

EDIT - It's a VI-L, but does the J-12 clear the baffles? - EDIT
 
All three of my Canon 7 Selenium Meters are accurate. One, in the Canonator was not. Two of the meters were not working when I received them. I repaired one by cleaning the contacts to the Cell; the second had the light baffle from the meter pressing on the Galvenometer needle and the frame line selector. I removed the Baffle, meter is accurate and all the frames now work on it. I suspect a lot of "dead" meters are those with similar problems. My Contax IIIa was the same way, dirty contacts to the cell. I have three Kodak Retina IIIS', Reflex-S, IIIc, Auto III all with accurate Selenium meters. All were bought in their original case, within the last 10 years.

I got used to the trigger wind in one roll of film. You can advance the film at a rate of 1FPS with ease, and do not have to takeyour eye from the viewfinder.
 
lawrence said:
How do you get on with the trigger wind? I've always thought they must be a bit slow to use, although I've never owned/used one...
Click to expand...

The trigger wind actually is very fast, especially if you have the optional handgrip that screws into the tripod socket. I think it's considerably faster than a lever, since you don't have to disturb the hand that controls the shutter release.

The point of this is not necessarily to shoot a lot of frames per second, as to be able to take one shot and then get the camera ready faster for the next shot.

I like the trigger-wind concept so much that I also have the accessory trigger winder for my Bessa R3a. This makes it very much like a modern-day VI-T, with the key features of 1:1 viewfinder and trigger wind. In terms of advance, the Bessa is the best of both worlds, since it has both a thumb lever and a trigger, so you can use whichever you prefer at the moment. Just think how much more popular the VI might have been if Canon had engineered the VI-T with the trigger on the bottom, but replaced the top-mounted knob with the P's beautifully-shaped thumb lever!


(PS -- Canon showed considerable smarts, though, in providing that auxiliary knob. I've got another trigger-wind camera, an FSU-made Droug, which has ONLY the trigger... okay for shooting, but kind of a nuisance when loading!)
 
lawrence said:
"The P is regarded by many as one of the best looking Canon rangefinder cameras..."

But not as good-looking as the L ;)
Click to expand...

Do you mean the VI-L? I have this one too, but I think the P looks better.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
"Parallax correction" vs"Auto-Parallax Correction". The first means little lines permanantly etched with the main frames to be used as a guide when at close range. The Canon P uses those, as does my Nikon S3. "Auto-Parallax correction" means that the framelines moves as you focus, to indicate the image that will be captured. The Canon 7, Nikon SP, Leica M's, and others use this more accurate method.

Brian,

Please clarify the statement on the "P" using "Parallax correction". When I look through my viewfinder on both of my "P"s I see the entire frame lines moving as I focus. This would mean that the "P" is "Auto-Parallax Correction" if I understand your definitions correctly. I may of course mis understand the definitions.

35mm, 50mm and 100mm frame lines are all visible at the same time.

Wayne
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom