Canon Advice...

[Vince Lupo]

First time posting in the Canon RF room...

I was given what I think is a Canon IIc, and wanted to confirm that it is in fact a IIc, and if it's worth fixing. Its serial number is 54752, and it has a two-piece selector lever, no flash synch, speeds split at 1/25th, but it has 1/1000th shutter speed (basic research I've done suggests that IIc's only went to 1/500th). Came with a 50/1.9 Serenar and cap. Doesn't say Japan nor Occupied Japan.

So - here's my dilemma: The camera's shutter needs service (curtains are fine). The film advance knob is locked up, and there is a dent just above the viewfinder window. The lens is relatively decent, but there are a few rather large black paint flakes in between the elements, and the focus action is pretty stiff.

Is this worth restoring? If so, who does a relatively decent job on Canon rangefinders at a reasonable price?

I'll try to post a couple of shots of the camera.....thanks very much for your thoughts and help!

 

[xayraa33]

First time posting in the Canon RF room...

I was given what I think is a Canon IIc, and wanted to confirm that it is in fact a IIc, and if it's worth fixing. Its serial number is 54752, and it has a two-piece selector lever, no flash synch, speeds split at 1/25th, but it has 1/1000th shutter speed (basic research I've done suggests that IIc's only went to 1/500th). Came with a 50/1.9 Serenar and cap. Doesn't say Japan nor Occupied Japan.

So - here's my dilemma: The camera's shutter needs service (curtains are fine). The film advance knob is locked up, and there is a dent just above the viewfinder window. The lens is relatively decent, but there are a few rather large black paint flakes in between the elements, and the focus action is pretty stiff.

Is this worth restoring? If so, who does a relatively decent job on Canon rangefinders at a reasonable price?

I'll try to post a couple of shots of the camera.....thanks very much for your thoughts and help!

If it has the 1/1000 shutter speed, would it be the more common Canon III then?

 

[dexdog]

Based on your description, the camera appears to be a Canon III. Serial number is within range in Dechert's book, the III has 1/1000 shutter speed and no flash sync.

Not worth a lot of money, maybe $150, but a nice camera to use once you get it working. I am not sure if Essex Camera works on bottom-loaders, but the firm does fix many of the RF Canons.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Yeah, it's sounding more and more like a Canon III -- drat, thought I might've hit the jackpot!

Here are some quick shots of the camera, to help verify the model and your thoughts as to whether it's worth reviving:

 

[dexdog]

It appears to be a Canon III. Have you tried moving the rewind crank to R? I have one cranky Canon bottom-feeder that locks up occasionally, and moving the lever to rewind position and pressing the shutter (if it doesn't fire by itself) and/or gently turning the rewind knob sometimes works a stuck shutter/knob loose. At least worth a try, but don't try to force it the rewind knob if it doesn't want to move, of course.

 

[Vince Lupo]

It appears to be a Canon III. Have you tried moving the rewind crank to R? I have one cranky Canon bottom-feeder that locks up occasionally, and moving the lever to rewind position and pressing the shutter (if it doesn't fire by itself) and/or gently turning the rewind knob sometimes works a stuck shutter/knob loose. At least worth a try, but don't try to force it the rewind knob if it doesn't want to move, of course.

Yeah, tried all of the above, but that film advance knob is locked solid. I can manually wind the shutter by rotating the speed dial, and then it will work on the faster speeds (1/40th and up) when I press the shutter button. Something inside must not be releasing the film advance mechanism when the shutter button is pressed. So combine that with its need for a general CLA, maybe fixing that dent, and servicing/cleaning the lens, I could be into this for $200, so I don't know whether it's worth it or not to me. Unless I could find someone who would do it all for $100! Shame because aside from that dent, the camera and lens are cosmetically fairly nice.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Well let me approach this from another perspective: has anyone here done a DIY on these cameras? I mean, the camera was given to me, and I wouldn't want to throw any more than about $100 to get this working. Think it's worth a shot? How tricky are these to work on?

 

[John Shriver]

The National Camera repair manual on the Leica IIIf, and Tomosy's Leica Repair book, should be enough to guide you. Question is -- are you known for "mechanical aptitude"?

The dent is a non-issue unless it cracked the finder prism, in which case the camera would be effectively totaled.

Getting the gear-train and shutter curtain latches working is really pretty simple.

The "risk" is that it may very well need new curtains. The original ones are all punky by now. Replacing the shutter curtains on a Canon III is harder than on a Leica IIIf, partly due to the materials of the drums and the glue holding them on, and the need to be absolutely accurate in positioning the curtains. (There's no fine adjust for 1/500 and 1/1000 as there is on Leica IIIc and higher. Canon depended on jigs to position the curtains.) Also, the curtain cloth has to be particularly thin. So go as far as pulling the shell, and examine the shutter curtains VERY carefully for pinholes. If there's none, it's not a bad job. If there are, it's a nasty job. (From experience.)

As for whether it's worth the work -- dry shoot with the combined variable-mag rangefinder/viewfinder. If you like it, it's worth some investment. If not, resell it. It's got the ring around the front RF lens, which is a "key part".

As for the lens, the edging needs to be repainted. No idea how hard the 50/1.9 is to work on, not as simple mechanically as the 50/1.8.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The black flakes in the lens are probably paint from the reflective portions of the glass. That lens unscrews, should not be too hard to clean. You can us ea Sharpie marker pen to blacken the surfaces.

Youxin Ye will not work on Canons. Eddy Smolov will.

 

[xayraa33]

Here is a very similar Canon IVSb schematic drawing that might help you delve into that Canon III Vince.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Thanks for all the info guys. I did manage to clean the black flakes out of the lens, and I repainted the edge with some flat black paint, and it seems to be fine. I tried to relube the lens by removing the rear outer ring (with the depth of field scale), and for some reason the lens is binding when I try to focus it. I'll have to take it apart again, but once that has been taken care of, it will actually be a pretty decent lens.

John - I'm not bad in terms of 'mechanical aptitude' -- my problem is just making sure that I have the proper little screwdrivers and the proper lube. What do you guys use for oil/grease for the interior of the camera? Otherwise, I think I can do it -- I don't seem to end up with leftover screws when I put things back together!

The curtains look fine, so I think they'll be okay. And the dent on the top of the camera just seems to be affecting the top cover and nothing else. So maybe I can reshape it so that it doesn't look as bad.

Heck, the camera was given to me, so if I mess up I'm out nothing.

 

[russelljtdyer]

That dent over the view finder window makes it look kind of cool. It looks like an eye brow. Maybe I should hit the top of my Canon P with a small rubber mallet to see if I can get the same effect. It might make my camera look more agreeable when taking pictures of women I don't know on the street.