Canon drops the Gauntlet, New G11 and S90

chris91387 said:
i've had my G10 for 2 weeks and i find it cumbersome and slow to work with (unless in auto mode). it takes nice pictures but to get it to do what i envision just takes me too long. it'll be fine for family snapshots but for anything else i'd rather use my film camera or nikon dslr.

maybe i'll get faster at it but for now it's just not very intuitive for me.

maybe the g11 is easier to use?

- chris
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What are you finding slow? All that's necessary is to point and push the button. Your shot is made in under a second. Don't wait for the camera to lock focus, it's just a waste of time. Everything is in focus on these cameras any how.

Best wishes
Dan
 
It's hilarious, really.

It's been less than a decade since people were "oooing" and "ahhhhing" over even a MODEST digital camera - say, the Canon G1/G2 - with it's 3/4 MP sensor and all the bells and whistles available at the time.

Now, people whine and complain about sensor size.

It's truly funny.

Cheers,
Dave
 
The issue with cameras with no viewfinder isn't the street shooting factor, it's the simple fact that it's more difficult to hold the camera steady at arms' length! And yes, an LCD screen will never be as sharp as an optical finder, or as useful in bright light. I simply do not understand the lack of optical finders in digital cameras.

Well, the release of the G11 shows once again why I haven't bought a higher-end digital yet -- the product cycle is just way too fast. I may yet buy the G10 since it's now going to go at a discount. (Good thing I haven't bought one yet or I'd be mad right about now.)
 
KoNickon said:
Well, the release of the G11 shows once again why I haven't bought a higher-end digital yet -- the product cycle is just way too fast. I may yet buy the G10 since it's now going to go at a discount. (Good thing I haven't bought one yet or I'd be mad right about now.)
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Yeah, nothing gets my back up like annual progress and improvement in a product.

In all seriousness, this is a concern only if you compulsively need to buy every model. If you don't need to do that, then the rapid cycling means that for those that maybe buy a new camera every 3-5 years, when we want one we know there'll be a state-of-the-art, new model.

Regardless of the speed of the cycle, I think the G11 looks very appealing. Limiting the resolution to a more manageable resolution while keeping the great lens and ergonomics of the G10 seems like a win-win, and bringing back the G-series articulating LCDs, which I loved on my G5 ages ago, seals the deal. Tis the season of camera announcements, but this and the S90 look like the ones to beat for me.
 
Wiyum said:
Yeah, nothing gets my back up like annual progress and improvement in a product.

In all seriousness, this is a concern only if you compulsively need to buy every model. If you don't need to do that, then the rapid cycling means that for those that maybe buy a new camera every 3-5 years, when we want one we know there'll be a state-of-the-art, new model.

Regardless of the speed of the cycle, I think the G11 looks very appealing. Limiting the resolution to a more manageable resolution while keeping the great lens and ergonomics of the G10 seems like a win-win, and bringing back the G-series articulating LCDs, which I loved on my G5 ages ago, seals the deal. Tis the season of camera announcements, but this and the S90 look like the ones to beat for me.
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Well, I bought a Canon Powershot A75 when it hit the market, and it still works. Although I seldomly use it due to shutter lag and the fact that I like the results with the film Leica M more.
 
dcsang said:
It's hilarious, really.

It's been less than a decade since people were "oooing" and "ahhhhing" over even a MODEST digital camera - say, the Canon G1/G2 - with it's 3/4 MP sensor and all the bells and whistles available at the time.

Now, people whine and complain about sensor size.

It's truly funny.

Cheers,
Dave
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What's funny/hilarious about it? Some people just expect more.

This camera does not impress.
 
Thardy said:
What's funny/hilarious about it? Some people just expect more.

This camera does not impress.
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The camera is not even in reviewers hands yet.
To say "it does not impress" is quite conceited imho.

Image quality at high ISO's is going to be the main driver here for the S90.
The G11, well, everything "old" is new again (re: swivel screen, lower MP).

People always "expect more" - that's what caused the idiotic race to increase the number of megapixels on a tiny sensor.

The initial comments from years ago that 6MP was an ample amount in order to simulate a 24x36mm negative were pretty much bang on; but the companies listened to those "people" who expected more and look where it got us. Muddied images even at ISO400; excessive noise reduction done in camera, not to mention the continual refresh cycle merely due to an increase in MP or "new features" (i.e. Canon's 5D MK II ) rather than focusing (pun intended) on what is really important to develop (better AF accuracy, better/cleaner High ISO, etc.)

The speed at which development of digital cameras within the last 10-11 years has been incredibly fast already. No one camera will be the "Holy Grail" for everyone and what suits some, may not suit others but at least wait for a review before passing judgment. Or even better, how about holding the camera and playing with it to see if you like it before you claim that it's trash. 🙂

Cheers,
Dave
 
sold my bulky D200 and bought little used G9 last June for a motorbike trip. apart from shutter lag, and sometimes slow controls (e.g. switching between "chimping mode" and ready to take next shot) that can be also because of memory card, G-cameras are very capable point-n-shoots. dont see myself upgrading though, for a few years.
 
dcsang said:
The camera is not even in reviewers hands yet.
To say "it does not impress" is quite conceited imho.

Image quality at high ISO's is going to be the main driver here for the S90.
The G11, well, everything "old" is new again (re: swivel screen, lower MP).

People always "expect more" - that's what caused the idiotic race to increase the number of megapixels on a tiny sensor.

The initial comments from years ago that 6MP was an ample amount in order to simulate a 24x36mm negative were pretty much bang on; but the companies listened to those "people" who expected more and look where it got us. Muddied images even at ISO400; excessive noise reduction done in camera, not to mention the continual refresh cycle merely due to an increase in MP or "new features" (i.e. Canon's 5D MK II ) rather than focusing (pun intended) on what is really important to develop (better AF accuracy, better/cleaner High ISO, etc.)

.

The speed at which development of digital cameras within the last 10-11 years has been incredibly fast already. No one camera will be the "Holy Grail" for everyone and what suits some, may not suit others but at least wait for a review before passing judgment. Or even better, how about holding the camera and playing with it to see if you like it before you claim that it's trash. 🙂

Cheers,
Dave
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Small sensor cameras are great. That's why Nikon resisted the allure of full frame for so long.
 
Dan States said:
Don't wait for the camera to lock focus, it's just a waste of time. Everything is in focus on these cameras any how.

Best wishes
Dan
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Had the G10 for a few month and what you describe is not possible. You can't force the camera to take a photo without focussing. Even if you use it in manual mode (af switched off) the camera needs a considerable amount of time to take the photo.
 
dcsang said:
not to mention the continual refresh cycle merely due to an increase in MP or "new features" (i.e. Canon's 5D MK II ) rather than focusing (pun intended) on what is really important to develop (better AF accuracy, better/cleaner High ISO, etc.)
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Not sure what you're talking about, I own a 5D original, and the Mk2 I shot with at work is significantly better at high ISO, roughly 2 stops so. AF also seems better, and video mode is nice if a bit convoluted ergonomically.
 
ethics_gradient said:
Not sure what you're talking about, I own a 5D original, and the Mk2 I shot with at work is significantly better at high ISO, roughly 2 stops so. AF also seems better, and video mode is nice if a bit convoluted ergonomically.
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And I owned a 5D till they announced and released the 5D MK II - then I switched to the Nikon D700.

The AF on the 5D MK II is not "better" even though it may "seem" better. The AF system was not improved upon.

The high ISO may be better but then you're also packing in more MP - why bother with more MP unless you can't frame properly and require the extra MP to be able to crop to what you should have framed in the first place.

Video is something I don't want or need in an SLR.
That was the big thing for the 5D MK II - a lot of the cams were sold based on that "feature" - sorry but Canon lost me when it did that.

Cheers,
Dave
 
dcsang said:
And I owned a 5D till they announced and released the 5D MK II - then I switched to the Nikon D700.

The AF on the 5D MK II is not "better" even though it may "seem" better. The AF system was not improved upon.

The high ISO may be better but then you're also packing in more MP - why bother with more MP unless you can't frame properly and require the extra MP to be able to crop to what you should have framed in the first place.

Video is something I don't want or need in an SLR.
That was the big thing for the 5D MK II - a lot of the cams were sold based on that "feature" - sorry but Canon lost me when it did that.

Cheers,
Dave
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Will you switch back when the next generation of Nikon high end dslr all have video? And I bet they will have this feature.
 
tom.w.bn said:
Will you switch back when the next generation of Nikon high end dslr all have video? And I bet they will have this feature.
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No.. I won't.

There were other reasons for switching to Nikon from Canon which include the issues I've mentioned above - better AF system, better flash system, better ergonomics etc. etc. etc.

Dave
 
I think of the S90 as an interesting intermediate between a full-fledged photographer's compact like the GR Digital III and the faceless compacts that dominate the rest of the market. Not as configurable, but not full-auto-dumb either. I like the look and it looks like Canon put a fair amount of thought into it.

It would have been nice for the S90 to include a hotshoe that allowed us OVF users to mount an OVF for framing. And a no-lag snap-focus mode would have been really nice.

A side note about OVFs:
I've read a number of comments saying that OVFs are passe and that LCDs and LCD-based composition is the best way to go with digital compacts. I've never had much success in shooting at very slow shutter speeds when using the LCD. Sure, the camera isn't at arms length, but I find that it's not very stable either. I'm can stabilize cameras much better if they're pressed up against my face. Another point is that I prefer the framing isolation (I hope you understand what I mean) that an OVF provides. Perhaps I'm easily distracted 🙂 but when framing using the LCD I find that the action around can sometimes knock my focus off.

I'm not saying that manufacturers shouldn't concentrate on LCDs - higher resolution, faster refresh in all light conditions, etc. are all very welcome - but I think that the makers of intermediate compacts and up (S90, LX3, etc.) should give more than a passing nod to OVFs and how to make their use better. The one thing that's missing in current compact OVFs is the ability to set focus (a single central focusing point would suffice) and see focus confirmation. It's a tough problem I imagine.
 
I despise shooting at arms-length - it's unstable and doesn't allow you to climb into the scene the way you can through an eye-level or even a good waist-level. The S90 is very attractive because of the control set, but no eye-level finder kills it for me.

One thing I like about the G11 is how the articulating screen can be turned around; when I shoot, I don't chimp. Put the same assignable front and back controls on the G11 as are on the S90, improve the OVF a little and I'd be ecstatic. As it is, if the G11's low light performance improvement is as stated I'll take one - it's finally good enough for me.

IMO, Canon should be using the Canonet G-III 17 as inspiration for the G series, not Ginza billboards.
 
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