Canon IIIa? Info for Newbie to Rangefinders

[GBH]

Hi all, I am a professional multimedia developer. I have been using Canon DSLR's for some years now for both personal and professional work. I am now contracting to an engineering firm and this is giving me plenty of spare time to explore my passion - photography. I am fluent with Photoshop and most of my photos spend a fair bit of time in there before finally outputted. Having said this, I now have the urge to understand the traditions of photographic techniques. So, I have just purchased a Canon Canonet 28 and a Canon Canonet GIII 17. They should be arriving soon. I am not really interested in the 28, just got it for a great price so I thought, what the hell.

I am now looking at getting a Canon IIIa (cause i think it looks great) but really know nothing about them and can't seem to find much information about them on the net. Does anyone here have experience with them and let me know if it is worth getting? What type of lens do they take and any other useful information would be greatly appreciated.

Since I am also new to film photography I was wondering what recommendations you may have for B&W film. I am hopefully going to concentrate on the photojournalism style with my rangefinders and shoot primarily with B&W film. I will experiment with most but am looking for one that has a nice classic look with good grain.

Any info on developing your on B&W negatives would also be helpful as I plan on scanning my negatives, so they will end up going through Photoshop anyway (old habits dye hard)

I appreciate any comments, advice and feedback you may have to offer! Thanks.

 

[back alley]

greetings and welcome to the forum.
both those fixed lens canons you are waiting on will be good 'picture takers' but the glll has a very nice lens and a great feel to it, it is very popular.

as to the llla - i have a canon lll and it's a very nice camera and, depending on the lens used, is highly capable of excellent results.
i'm not sure i would recommend it though.
later models, in the iv series, have a slightly larger viewfinder making life a bit easier.
my lll happens to have a fairly dim finder so i use it with an external finder for 28mm framelines and use the wider lens for increased depth of focus and i don't have to worry about focussing through the dim finder.
the iv sb and especially the iv sb2 is a fine and a fine looking camera also.

remember that these bottom feeders are a bit trickier to load film into also.
they take screw mount lenses, also known as leica thread mount lenses which are plentiful and have a wide price range.
try the canon museum and cameraquest's website for some more info.
joe

 

[GBH]

thanks for the advice... I think I will wait to see how I go with the GIII and see how I progress form there, I still don't fully understand the whole "using the finder theory" and "framelines" etc... probably cause I have not yet looked through one!

 

[rover]

I have been very forunate to find a IV SB2 and really enjoy it. (Joe had to teach me how to load it though.) As far as looks go, all the Canon bottom feeders are pretty similar. Have a look through the Canon Camera Museum for some basic info and pictures.

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/f_camera.html

The IV SB2, II S2, II D2 and II F2 are the last incarnations of the Canon bottom loaders and some consider them the best bottom loaders made by any manufacturer. A big difference between these cameras and the priors is that the viewfinder is a bit larger and considered improved. By modern Leica M standards, it is still small, but very easy to use. You will find most sold with a chrome 50/1.8, which is a very good lens. Throw in some TriX or PlusX and you will be ready to go.

 

[GBH]

Thanks, I will look into the IV SB2, II S2, II D2 and II F2 now.

 

[wlewisiii]

Since I am also new to film photography I was wondering what recommendations you may have for B&W film. I am hopefully going to concentrate on the photojournalism style with my rangefinders and shoot primarily with B&W film. I will experiment with most but am looking for one that has a nice classic look with good grain.

Any info on developing your on B&W negatives would also be helpful as I plan on scanning my negatives, so they will end up going through Photoshop anyway (old habits dye hard)

I appreciate any comments, advice and feedback you may have to offer! Thanks.

Welcome! I'll touch on these topics and leave the Canon canon to the Canonistas... 😀

If you're just starting out with film, I'd suggest the one of the old standbys - Kodak Tri-X and Plus-X or Ilford FP4 or HP5+. These are the latest and greatest incarnations of the traditional black and white films. I'd also suggest using the slower speed film and working mostly out of doors in daylight to get used to the differences between film and digital. Basically the best thing to do is pick one film - I'd suggest Plus-X - and buy a bunch and get to know what it can and can't do for you before trying a different film.

As for developing, the easiest route for you to use is a developer called Diafine. It is a 2 solution compensating developer that is not time and temperature sensative. What that means for you is that it's extreamly easy to use. All you need is a developer tank, a reel to hold your film, 3 jugs for the chemicals (Diafine A and B solutions and Fixer), a changing bag and your kitchen sink. All of the equipment and the Diafine can be bought at low cost from www.freestylephoto.biz There are two other big advantages to using Diafine - it gives a speed bump to most films (allowing you to use the ISO 125 Plus-X as though it were rated ISO 400 or the ISO 400 Tri-X as though it were rated ISO 1250 to 1600.) and it produces a negative that is "flater" in certain ways. This is actually a good thing for scanning as it makes an easier image to work with in Photoshop.

Hope this helps,

Good Luck and Good Light!

William

 

[GBH]

Thanks for the excellent advice for developing the negatives and which film to use... I will head to the local camera store and see if I can pick up what you have recommended. I really didn't even know what to ask for but now have a good idea. Thanks again!

 

[djon]

I'd suggest getting used to film by shooting color negative film, having it processed and scanned to CD. Then you can dump that directly into Photoshop, tweak, and print however it is you print from your digital cameras.

I'd suggest avoiding the bottom-feeder until you master the GIII...an excellent design with great optics.

...if you're SERIOUS about getting in touch with tradition, that would require Tri X or Plus X in the US (Ilford's a newcomer and probable vanisher here...but since it's a Japanese camera you may want to shoot Fuji Neopan in 100 or 400), and would require D76. Accept no substitutes. And then you have to enlarge to silver paper, souping in trays and drying between paper leaves...do you have a nearby rental darkroom? Ask a camera store.

 

[rover]

I thought there was one of these out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531744033&category=30027&rd=1

 

[ScottS]

I thought there was one of these out there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7531744033&category=30027&rd=1

The internal contradictions in that description are somewhat amusing:

"Mint Condition with just faint scuff marks"
"completely functional although not tested"

Still, it's a nice looking camera with an included collapsible Serenar 50/1.9. As always, with ebay bodies, budget for a CLA. I got a Canon IIF on ebay which was in similar near-mint cosmetic condition, with what looked like a fine shutter curtain -- but it was full of pinholes not obvious from looking at it (with the non-opening back I couldn't exactly hold it up to the light. After a CLA and shutter curtain replacement, it's a great camera, though.

Scott

 

[GBH]

It does look like a beautiful camera! I think I will have a good play with the GIII 17 then decide what to do next... It's sad when you are already planning future purchases before you have even taken delivery of your first!

 

[ChrisN]

If you spend much time around here you'll have to get used to that!

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The earlier Canon "bottom-loading" cameras are difficult to load and have "squinty" viewfinders. You have to trim the film leader to load the camera and avoid jamming it. The shutter can be damaged from loading it with "off-the-shelf" film as the leader is not trimmed back far enough for the Canon.

The Canon V and later series are much easier to load and use. The viewfinders are much brighter and give more eye-relief than the older cameras. There is a reason why Canon could make and sell almost 100,000 Canon P's as opposed to under 10,000 each of the earlier models.

The Canon P and Canon 7 are better cameras, and will not cost too much more than a Canon III.

From Stephen Gandy's website, one of the RFF sponsors:

http://cameraquest.com/canon7sz.htm

http://cameraquest.com/canonp.htm

http://cameraquest.com/crfvt.htm

"Knob-winding Bottom-feeders"

http://cameraquest.com/crf2f2.htm

 

[GBH]

Its amazing how helpful all you guys are! Again, thankyou. I love the look and spec of the Canon P. Does anyone have a ball park figure of what one would expect to pay for a good working condition Canon P?

 

[rover]

Joe is singlehandedly driving the price up. He currently owns 4 and my have a 5th on the way, who knows. If not for him, upwards of $350 can get you a good sample.

 

[back alley]

not quite.
i only own 3 plus 2 bottom feeders.

and there are good deals to be had.
one canon p plus meter plus 50/1.8 just sold yesterday on ebay for about 355 american.
that's a damn good deal.

however, for the norm, figure about 250 to 3 hundred for a good user and maybe 350 for something that makes your chest swell with pride.

joe

 

[GBH]

OK, scoping one out now! They sound impressive from what I have read so far and damn, they look nice! Another question for you guys...

Oh by the way I am now the proud owner of a Canonet 28, Canonet GII QL17, GII QL19 and Canon IIIa. None have arrived yet so I still haven't even looked through a rangefinder! Needless to say I am excitied about there arrival so I can start having a play. God I hope I enjoy this form of photography! Well the shopping is fun anyway!

I would like to know how you guys light meter for your photos. Are you all experienced enough to know from instinct exactly what setting to put on your camera? Do you use the built in meter if its got one? Or do you carry around a hand held meter? Any help advice would be appreciated.

 

[back alley]

yes to all your metering questions.

i have a couple of hand held meters.
i use the same film in all my cameras and mostly shoot it at the same speed rating.
i meter in my head and use the sunny 16 rule and then double check against the meter and then i usually put the meter away.
metering, for black & white anyway, is way easier than those ads in the camera mags make it sound.

joe

 

[Sonnar Brian]

My Canon 7 (Okay, three Canon 7's) have built-in Selenium Meters that are all quite accurate. I use a Weston Master II or Master 715 for the RF's without meters. They give very good results, especially considering their 60+ years of age.

 

[Byuphoto]

GBH wrote: It's sad when you are already planning future purchases before you have even taken delivery of your first!
Hurry pass the Maalox and dial 911 sounds like GAS to me ;-)
These guys are so addicted and will drag you down to their level.I only have a Yashica GSN,Canon GIII(2) and a Bessa R so I am the voice of reason.;-)
as far as film and metering. It is hard to beat Tri-X and a Norton Director
PS Joe, I am dealing on a 7 OH OH GAS again