djon
Well-known
Gone nuts. 
Just bought an L1 from Vermin.com.
I hope the fabric shutter is OK (per the seller), that the viewfinder equals my P (+adjustable magnifier, +no 100mm frame clutter, - smaller scene), and that it's Leica-quiet, due to the fabric shutter.
I also hope/think it's operationally identical to the P (with the exception of the Barnack-style slow dial that replaces the P's self-timer).
The viewfinder adjustment wheel could be glasses-marring, but that should be easy to fix with some Barge Cement and leather. Same fix worked better than original Canon for an F1 viewfinder replacement eyepiece.
I'll report in a week or so.
Just bought an L1 from Vermin.com.
I hope the fabric shutter is OK (per the seller), that the viewfinder equals my P (+adjustable magnifier, +no 100mm frame clutter, - smaller scene), and that it's Leica-quiet, due to the fabric shutter.
I also hope/think it's operationally identical to the P (with the exception of the Barnack-style slow dial that replaces the P's self-timer).
The viewfinder adjustment wheel could be glasses-marring, but that should be easy to fix with some Barge Cement and leather. Same fix worked better than original Canon for an F1 viewfinder replacement eyepiece.
I'll report in a week or so.
The finder is not as "grand" as the 1x on the Canon P, but it is very good. I have a Vt, which has the same finder.
Hmm... I went to www.vermin.com/ and the host was offering it for sale...
Maybe I'm an old fogy. But the name flat turns me off; why should I trust vermin? Or anyone who refers to himself as vermin? Or works for vermin or an outfit named vermin? Could there be a sliver of truth to the appelation? I wouldn't deal with vermin, so djon I wish you well with your purchase!
Maybe I'm an old fogy. But the name flat turns me off; why should I trust vermin? Or anyone who refers to himself as vermin? Or works for vermin or an outfit named vermin? Could there be a sliver of truth to the appelation? I wouldn't deal with vermin, so djon I wish you well with your purchase!
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
djon said:Gone nuts.
Just bought an L1 from Vermin.com.
I hope the fabric shutter is OK (per the seller), that the viewfinder equals my P (+adjustable magnifier, +no 100mm frame clutter, - smaller scene), and that it's Leica-quiet, due to the fabric shutter.
I also hope/think it's operationally identical to the P (with the exception of the Barnack-style slow dial that replaces the P's self-timer).
I once owned an L-1 for a few weeks; rangefinder wouldn't stay in adjustment (I'm sure it was just a quirk of this particular unit) so I had to send it back.
It's a lot like using a P except:
-- Finder is very contrasty, moreso than the P, but no bright lines.
-- The winding lever is just a little too pointy on the end, unlike the P's lever, which is one of humanity's rare artifacts of perfection.
-- The shutter dial not only has separate slow speeds, but the main dial rotates as it fires; keep your fingers clear! This one control pretty much disqualified me as an L-1 (or V-T) owner; I do a lot of photography in dark places, where it's convenient to be able to change speeds by 'counting the clicks' rather than having to lift, turn and scrutinize a dial, so I decided I'd be better off with the VI/P/7 series Canons and their non-rotating dials.
Other than that, though, the L-1 is super-neat. The main drawback is that after you've had one of those, you'll feel you need a V-T, and then...
Mackinaw
Think Different
I second Brian's comments on the viewfindfer. While a major improvement over the older Canon knob-wind cameras, the finder in the L-1 still qualifies as somewhat "squinty." One of the best things about the L-1 (which I own) is the parallax-correcting pin in the shoe. The bright-line viewfinders that were made for the "pin" cameras are excellent and are well worth the cost (the 50mm and 100mm are superb).
If anything bothers me about the L-1 it's the very pointy advanced lever which leaves a sizeable indent on my thumb whenever I use the camera. I've wrapped the end with tape, which helps, but I'm investigating whether it's possible to swap advance levers with the P or Canon 7.
I like the L-1. Perhaps my favorite Canon rangefinder.
Jim Bielecki
If anything bothers me about the L-1 it's the very pointy advanced lever which leaves a sizeable indent on my thumb whenever I use the camera. I've wrapped the end with tape, which helps, but I'm investigating whether it's possible to swap advance levers with the P or Canon 7.
I like the L-1. Perhaps my favorite Canon rangefinder.
Jim Bielecki
djon
Well-known
Great insights...you' guys have probably taken the sting out of some surprises
I'm used to the spinning dial and slow speeds...Leica IIIC user.
Its amazing how a IIIC equals the high water mark in digital camera viewfinders...Epson excluded I guess. I guess if I can use a IIIC I can use an L1..
Somebody at Canon seems to have obsessed on advance levers...compare F1 to F1n for example.
I'm used to the spinning dial and slow speeds...Leica IIIC user.
Its amazing how a IIIC equals the high water mark in digital camera viewfinders...Epson excluded I guess. I guess if I can use a IIIC I can use an L1..
Somebody at Canon seems to have obsessed on advance levers...compare F1 to F1n for example.
lawrence
Veteran
I currently own a 7 and two L1s and I have also owned a P. In my view the 7 is too big and I dislike the P's finder as it is 1:1 and has too many frame lines (why does everyone claim that high mag finders are great? I wear glasses and for me they are a disaster -- the 35mm frame lines are useless!). The L1 is an object of perfection, as far as I'm concerned, except that you right about the eyepiece -- if you wear glasses it will scratch them. I'd be interested to hear how you get on with the L1 and exactly how you fix the eyepiece problem.
djon
Well-known
OK, got my L1. Nice condition overall, mildew smell, repair patch on fabric shutter. Much quieter than the P but distinctly not Leica-quiet.
The viewfinder's not as exciting as the P's, but it's true that the P's 100mm frame lines are irritating (I don't shoot a 100mm lens on this...that's what my F1's for).
The 35mm lines on the P are barely usable with glasses, but the 50mm view can't be beat, except by Leica bright frame accessory finders.
The L1's lack of bright frames is a disappointment, but it may actually be better than the P for a glasses wearer shooting 35mm lens...everything you see is 35mm (or 50mm), there's no distraction.
The glasses-eating magnifier is easily fixed: put a strip of tape over it.
The painful advance lever will be fixed by Dremel.
The shutter speed adjustment gizmo is worse than on my 1949 Leica IIIC....smaller and harder to read (small type). Looks like the concept is shutter priority
The worst feature of the L1 Vs P is the non-zero frame counter. You have to set it by hand with every new roll...a little better than IIIC because the reset is protected and not easily knocked out of whack.
The second shutter curtain has a repair patch. It's peeling off. This is causing the slow speeds to fail. I'll have to have a word with the seller. Not usable.
I may negotiate a partial refund.
The viewfinder's not as exciting as the P's, but it's true that the P's 100mm frame lines are irritating (I don't shoot a 100mm lens on this...that's what my F1's for).
The 35mm lines on the P are barely usable with glasses, but the 50mm view can't be beat, except by Leica bright frame accessory finders.
The L1's lack of bright frames is a disappointment, but it may actually be better than the P for a glasses wearer shooting 35mm lens...everything you see is 35mm (or 50mm), there's no distraction.
The glasses-eating magnifier is easily fixed: put a strip of tape over it.
The painful advance lever will be fixed by Dremel.
The shutter speed adjustment gizmo is worse than on my 1949 Leica IIIC....smaller and harder to read (small type). Looks like the concept is shutter priority
The worst feature of the L1 Vs P is the non-zero frame counter. You have to set it by hand with every new roll...a little better than IIIC because the reset is protected and not easily knocked out of whack.
The second shutter curtain has a repair patch. It's peeling off. This is causing the slow speeds to fail. I'll have to have a word with the seller. Not usable.
I may negotiate a partial refund.
lawrence
Veteran
That's a big shame about the L1's shutter -- I was lucky with both mine as they work perfectly. I don't entirely agree with you about the speed dial or the frame counter -- they don't cause me a problem. Normally this is a camera I hand hold so the fact that speeds lower than 1/30th are hard to see/set isn't a problem. The frame counter isn't too bad either because I hardly ever have to reset it -- it just goes round and round and seems to be 'in synch' with the length of a roll of film. I as I said, I love these cameras -- they have just the right amount of funkyness combined with practicality. I tend to use the CSV lenses on them -- if you want a 28mm get the CSV 28mm f3.5 and the mini-finder -- a killer combo! You can use this lens wide open, no problem.
djon
Well-known
I just removed the patch and applied a dot of black "liquid electrical tape" ...the hole was about .5mm and didn't seem to call for the patch. I'm optimistic but I'll load some fast color film and park the camera in the sun without a lens to test the repair.
Another question: Unlike the P's clear background, the BACKGROUND of this L1's viewfinder is amber...seems counterproductive because it's so much like the rangefinder's orange circle. It LOOKS like the background color is due to colored optical coating (looks almost dichroic) of the rectangular window. Is this standard? I don't like that detail..if it's standard, probably has to do with reduction of flare..is that standard L1 or is mine an oddball?
Another question: Unlike the P's clear background, the BACKGROUND of this L1's viewfinder is amber...seems counterproductive because it's so much like the rangefinder's orange circle. It LOOKS like the background color is due to colored optical coating (looks almost dichroic) of the rectangular window. Is this standard? I don't like that detail..if it's standard, probably has to do with reduction of flare..is that standard L1 or is mine an oddball?
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
The L1's beamsplitter is metallized with gold, while the P's is metallized with silver. This makes the P's finder more neutral in color, but most people feel the L1 finder has more contrast.
Normally a gold-metallized beamsplitter gives the background a greenish cast (since light is passing THROUGH the gold film) while the rangefinder spot has a gold cast (since light from it is being REFLECTED by the gold film.) I'm not sure why yours would look amber, unless maybe there's some tarnish elsewhere in the optical system...
Normally a gold-metallized beamsplitter gives the background a greenish cast (since light is passing THROUGH the gold film) while the rangefinder spot has a gold cast (since light from it is being REFLECTED by the gold film.) I'm not sure why yours would look amber, unless maybe there's some tarnish elsewhere in the optical system...
kabkos
Established
I had a Canon 7 that had an amber background. It turned out that one of the lenses had come unglued from the prism and the amber color was coming from the Canada Balsam. I cleaned up the balsam with acetone and then reglued the lens to the prism with optical adhesive. The amber color went away and the rangefinder became more useable with alot less flare.
djon
Well-known
OK, lets say I decide to open this thing...
begin with the several front screws...? I did that years ago with a Leica...
What's that screw to the left (facing) the rectangular window (not on a P) ? Does that do anything helpful before I've removed the multiple little black screws on the body?
Looks like an optically coated glass in that rectangle...is that just a thin piece of glass or is that part of the prism/lens assembly you've described?
Where would I get "optical adhesive"?
Where would I get a diagram of this camera for disassembly purposes?
Other than not marring/losing the screws, are there any immediate concerns about opening the camera far enough to get to the prism?
Once at the prism, is there anything to worry about in terms of adjustments? Is that self-evident once I'm there?
begin with the several front screws...? I did that years ago with a Leica...
What's that screw to the left (facing) the rectangular window (not on a P) ? Does that do anything helpful before I've removed the multiple little black screws on the body?
Looks like an optically coated glass in that rectangle...is that just a thin piece of glass or is that part of the prism/lens assembly you've described?
Where would I get "optical adhesive"?
Where would I get a diagram of this camera for disassembly purposes?
Other than not marring/losing the screws, are there any immediate concerns about opening the camera far enough to get to the prism?
Once at the prism, is there anything to worry about in terms of adjustments? Is that self-evident once I'm there?
djon
Well-known
...and yes, the color tends amber-maybe-greenish...the rectangular window looks pearlish, dichroic, like optical coating...
lawrence
Veteran
Djon: I have checked both my L1s and I agree that the finders have an amber cast, which reduces the contrast with the yellow rangefinder spot. Interestingly I also have a Fed 3a and in this case the Soviets were a bit smarter -- the viewfinder has a slightly cool (cyan) cast, which contrasts well with the magenta rangefinder spot.
Mackinaw
Think Different
To answer some of your repair questions, I have a repair manual for a Canon VT which is the basic "platform" that the L series is based on. So....
The little screw that is next to the front viewfinder window is for decoration only, taking that off gives you access to one of the rangefinder adjustment screws.
The viewfinder window is not part of the top plate but part of the rangefinder assembly. You can remove the top plate without worry of disturbing the rangefinder.
You'll also have to remove the flash connector on the side of the top plate as well as the circular rangefinder window before you can take off the top plate. Not hard, but not easy either.
Are you in the U.S.? If so, I could fax/mail you a copy of the "removing the top plate" diagram.
E-mail off-list at bunchberry@mac.com
Jim Bielecki
The little screw that is next to the front viewfinder window is for decoration only, taking that off gives you access to one of the rangefinder adjustment screws.
The viewfinder window is not part of the top plate but part of the rangefinder assembly. You can remove the top plate without worry of disturbing the rangefinder.
You'll also have to remove the flash connector on the side of the top plate as well as the circular rangefinder window before you can take off the top plate. Not hard, but not easy either.
Are you in the U.S.? If so, I could fax/mail you a copy of the "removing the top plate" diagram.
E-mail off-list at bunchberry@mac.com
Jim Bielecki
djon
Well-known
Thanks for the various observations and the offer.
Experiments:
I've temporarily inserted a 12x16mm rectangle of CC40M gel (happened to have it) into the front of the rectangular window (clips by itself under the top and bottom, not clipped at the sides for ease of installation) .. makes the L1 noticably easier to focus in 35mm setting in SOME/MOST low light situations, doesn't hurt in any I've checked ( I find the 35mm setting virtually unusable otherwise)...cost seems about 1/4 f stop visually...maybe worth the effort to remove the top if a slightly larger gel could be inserted behind the window, where it'd be protected from moisture. See the world thru a rose-colored Canon. The problem with gels is that they're hard to find now and they're fragile...ruined by any moisture or handling.
I tried the site's repair tip for faded finders: first tried a dot of tape, then tried a 2mm dot of Sharpie (magic marker) in the center of the rectangular window...looked ugly on the scene and didn't contribute as much as the magenta gel.
Experiments:
I've temporarily inserted a 12x16mm rectangle of CC40M gel (happened to have it) into the front of the rectangular window (clips by itself under the top and bottom, not clipped at the sides for ease of installation) .. makes the L1 noticably easier to focus in 35mm setting in SOME/MOST low light situations, doesn't hurt in any I've checked ( I find the 35mm setting virtually unusable otherwise)...cost seems about 1/4 f stop visually...maybe worth the effort to remove the top if a slightly larger gel could be inserted behind the window, where it'd be protected from moisture. See the world thru a rose-colored Canon. The problem with gels is that they're hard to find now and they're fragile...ruined by any moisture or handling.
I tried the site's repair tip for faded finders: first tried a dot of tape, then tried a 2mm dot of Sharpie (magic marker) in the center of the rectangular window...looked ugly on the scene and didn't contribute as much as the magenta gel.
djon
Well-known
...I wonder if some kind of microprism could be cut to size and inserted over the circular window? Would make the spot brighter...
fyu ,,,I just measured...both the P and the L1 have 43mm focusing bases...Vs the Voigtlander's advertised 37mm....not particularly relevant, but interesting.
fyu ,,,I just measured...both the P and the L1 have 43mm focusing bases...Vs the Voigtlander's advertised 37mm....not particularly relevant, but interesting.
djon
Well-known
The L1 is now dedicated to a CV25. Changes my attitude to the camera because I don't have to bother with the viewfinder
I'd assumed the CV25 would live on my IIIC, but the L1's mass weight hangs better with that CV finder than does the little Leica. Besides, the Leica's approaching mint condition so I'm a little reluctant to haul it around as much as I want with the CV. The Leica is dedicated to a 35 3.5 Summaron with bright line Leica finder, B&W Neopan only
The L!'s pointy advance lever actually seems a reasonable idea...faster to grab, perhaps.
The shutter patch is now removed, replaced with liquid electrical tape. Seems a perfect fix, but I'll be testing it with fast film and bright light.
I'd assumed the CV25 would live on my IIIC, but the L1's mass weight hangs better with that CV finder than does the little Leica. Besides, the Leica's approaching mint condition so I'm a little reluctant to haul it around as much as I want with the CV. The Leica is dedicated to a 35 3.5 Summaron with bright line Leica finder, B&W Neopan only
The L!'s pointy advance lever actually seems a reasonable idea...faster to grab, perhaps.
The shutter patch is now removed, replaced with liquid electrical tape. Seems a perfect fix, but I'll be testing it with fast film and bright light.
back alley
IMAGES
john has been a busy guy!
i keep thinking that i'll dedicate a lens to a body but i keep changing my mind.
joe
i keep thinking that i'll dedicate a lens to a body but i keep changing my mind.
joe