Canon: They see a grim future for digital camera market

[David Hughes]

I think the sensible makers of almost anything have the factory running smoothly and a short waiting list of customers.

The alternative seems to be make lots and lots and wait for the customers to come and that doesn't always work; especially when old stock is dumped at half price...

Regards, David

 

[HHPhoto]

You can't upload a photo to instagram directly from a computer and this was always Instagram's intention. You have to send your image to a cloud or similar to get it on to your smart phone and then to Instagram from your phone. You can get an app to allow upload from a computer but they take some searching out also.

There are several programmes and apps for uploading pics from a computer directly to instagram. It is not quite as convenient as uploading from a smartphone, but it isn't difficult or a problem either. That's the reason why the number of pictures from real cameras (digital and film) on instagram is strongly increasing.
All film (related) companies are making lots of marketing on instagram with meanwhile hundreds of thousands of followers. And the number of film photographers posting their pics on instagram is also significantly increasing.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Just paid $200 for a like new Leica R-E. I’m fine w Leica prices.

Wow, only 200 bucks for an R-E. Congrats!
It is an excellent camera, and the Leica R lenses are superb.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Before digital consumer purchases of film cameras were in decline for a decade or more.
The advent of digital photography is probably what saved the remaining camera manufacturers.

That's not true. There have been ups and downs over the years - often due to general worldwide economic ups and downs - but not a general decline.
Here is the data from CIPA:
http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/common/cr400.pdf

Cheers, Jan

 

[Ted Striker]

That is a myth spread only in photo forums. Has nothing to do with reality.
There are more than a dozen big factories for photo paper globally.
The photo paper market has a volume of more than 400 million m² p.a.
It's a huge market.

Cheers, Jan

I have not seen anyone show me a print in a good 10 years. Not one. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Even I print far less than I ever have, and I enjoy a good print.

 

[Ted Striker]

So what will Canikon do?

Canon's CEO said exactly what they are going to do, concentrate on industrial & medical imaging. He was actually quite clear in his language.

 

[HHPhoto]

So what will Canikon do? Make camera phones? Robots?

Laws of physics dictate to me I need something bigger than a cell phone. So with me my "camera" will never be just my old phone.

Gosh maybe I'm the thing becoming obsolete here....

So, what will the current digital camera manufacturers do: I think the following will make the most sense:
1. Accept the reality: Snapshooters will use smartphones. In the digital compact camera / built in lens camera market probably only special cameras like waterproof/underwater cameras, high-quality compact cams (like the new Zeiss) and super-zoom bridge cameras will have a place.
2. Accept the reality: ILC cameras will be used by professionals and photography enthusiasts, not by the casual shooter anymore. So this market will be smaller in the future than today. But it will remain a market of several million cameras p.a.
3. Maybe 1-2 manufacturers will follow Samsung and quit the market.
4. Photographers will use their cameras for longer periods. Companies will react to that by longer product cycles: Not every 2-3 years a new model, but every 4-6 years. That will also lower their costs. In my opinion that is good for companies and photographers.
5. Streamlined camera portfolios: Not 3-4 entry level models anymore, but 1-2. Lower costs for the manufacturers.
6. New products for the increasing film community: New film cameras and scanners. That may come from companies who have the capabilities for that like Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Hasselblad, Fujifilm, Leica. Not from companies like Sony, Panasonic, Olympus.

I remain quite relaxed concerning the future. The camera industry will adapt to a new situation. No, the sky is not falling 🙂.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Ted Striker]

Let's not forget folks that the huge "surge" in film camera sales is 99% due to instant photography. Take that away and the film renaissance is hardly a blip on the radar.

 

[Ted Striker]

6. New products for the increasing film community: New film cameras and scanners. That may come from companies who have the capabilities for that like Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Hasselblad, Fujifilm, Leica. Not from companies like Sony, Panasonic, Olympus.

Cheers, Jan

Pentax has no capabilities. They are simply a Ricoh brand name now and has been left to languish.

Fujifilm in the recent past discontinued all film camera production (GF670, GF670W, Klasse S & W, Natura, etc; all canceled). They are not going to be leading any return to film.

Nikon axed their one affordable film camera and has let their one remaining one hang out to dry.

Canon shows no interest in film whatsoever.

Same with Hasselblad, who has no resources to make a film camera.

New film cameras are coming from kickstart. That alone tells you how impressive the resurgence is. Rank amateurs making new cameras. I'm STILL waiting for my returns to the kickstarts I backed. Film Ferannia has become the laughing stock of the film world. Years and years of delay with no end in sight. I've long since written off my backing of them as a total waste of money.

 

[HHPhoto]

I have not seen anyone show me a print in a good 10 years. Not one. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Fact is that there are more than a dozen huge photo paper factories worldwide producing more than 400 million m² photo paper every year, silver-halide and inkjet.
One of the big mass volume photo labs here in Germany alone (Cewe) is printing billions of pictures every year on silver-halide photo paper. The numbers are published.
Here in Germany you have one of the drugstore chain shops at "every corner of the street". All of them are offering photo prints. Either via their labs, or via photo kiosks.
Fujifilm alone is running three huge silver-halide photo paper factories worldwide. And last Photokina they have again (did that also in the last years) introduced a new highest-quality silver-halide photo paper (Maxima).

Cheers, Jan

 

[Phil_F_NM]

It's not like that here in the largest consumer market in the world. I'm just sayin'.
Phil Forrest

 

[HHPhoto]

Same with Hasselblad, who has no resources to make a film camera.

Fact is they are making cameras for film usage! The H5 and H6 can be used with the dedicated Hasselblad film back.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

It's not like that here in the largest consumer market in the world. I'm just sayin'.
Phil Forrest

Fujifilm has a photo paper factory in the US to serve the North American market. With an output of dozens of millions m² p.a.
Almost all NA photo labs also offer prints. Why? There is a demand.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Ted Striker]

Fact is they are making cameras for film usage! The H5 and H6 can be used with the dedicated Hasselblad film back.

Cheers, Jan

LOL!! I'm sure a lot of people are paying $15,000 for an H6 to use with film. 😱

The H5 is listed as discontinued at B & H.

 

[Ted Striker]

Fujifilm has a photo paper factory in the US to serve the North American market. With an output of dozens of millions m² p.a.
Almost all NA photo labs also offer prints. Why? There is a demand.

Cheers, Jan

I'll let you know when I see a print.

 

[HHPhoto]

I'll let you know when I see a print.

Not necessary. All my photography friends in the US regularly show me the prints they have got from their labs or have done by themselves.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Phil_F_NM]

There are three labs here in one of the largest cities in the US. They only do developing and printing runs when they have enough orders to make the most efficient use of chemistry.
As for your friends in the US, water seeks its own level. You choose to converse with like minded people, therefore you see more prints from your skewed sample space.
Phil Forrest

 

[jsrockit]

Ok, let’s relax. I make photo books and that’s printing. Many people do this too. Also, the US does have plenty of photo kiosks to print from phones or sd cards in malls or target or whatever. It may not be the high quality printing you guys have in mind, but people still print. Adorama prints ALOT!

 

[HHPhoto]

LOL!! I'm sure a lot of people are paying $15,000 for an H6 to use with film. 😱

No, they don't pay 15,000$ for a H6 with film back.
$15,000 is the price with digital back included.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Ok, let’s relax. I make photo books and that’s printing. Many people do this too.

Exactly.
The global demand for these photo books have been increasing for years. That is the reason why Fujifilm has put money in R&D in the last years and developed new silver-halide photo papers specially designed for use in photo books.
Here in Germany we even have TV ads for that. It's a huge market.

Cheers, Jan