Cartier-Bresson - Surrealism and communism!

[Vince Lupo]

Don't know if this is a Cartier-Bresson quote, but I recall one of my undergrad teachers saying this: If Cartier-Bresson had 60 great photos, and each was taken at an average of 1/60th of a second, he'd have 1 second of great photography.

Don't think I'll have anywhere near that!

 

[DNG]

I guess all I'm addressing, or ridiculing, is the idea of the machine-gun style of shooting street photography in bursts with digital cameras, as manifested by guys saying, "I've shot 30,000 pictures in the last two months with my new camera." Robert Frank shot 28,000 pictures for the 80-photo book, The Amercans, which, assuming he shot 300 days per year in those two years, would mean 28,000÷600, or 47 frames a day, or only 1-⅓ rolls per day. That is very far from an average of one shot per minute, and reflects the more thoughtful (not sure this is the right word) approach of someone like HCB, who would sometimes spot a location and stand around waiting for people to come into the scene.

—Mitch/Paris
Bangkok Hysteria
[Direct download link for PDF file of book project]

I am thoughtful while I walk about, I just don't shoot at anything either..
I don't think averaging 40-60 images an hour is indiscriminately taking photographs either. I may see more opportunity in my eyes, than others apparently.
If you are an active looker, in a busy area, surely you can see more than 5-7 opportunity's every hour
Unless you are looking for a certain combination of things to fall in line.

It may be HCB did see a great location, and wanted a person in a certain spot to make it work.
That is all and fine, but not instantaneous photography that he has preached over the years.
It still gets a great photograph... but a bit manipulate on his part.
Which is fine also.
Maybe that is the Communist part of some of his photography.. (the manipulated part on his part while he waits for the last element to enter the frame :angel🙂

This is all nit picking I know, but, seems we here tolerate it a bit to add to the discussion.

It does bring some strong replies 🙂

 

[DNG]

Don't know if this is a Cartier-Bresson quote, but I recall one of my undergrad teachers saying this:
If Cartier-Bresson had 60 great photos, and each was taken at an average of 1/60th of a second, he'd have 1 second of great photography.

Don't think I'll have anywhere near that!

Brilliant !! whether he said it or not !! 😀

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . It may be HCB did see a great location, and wanted a person in a certain spot to make it work.
That is all and fine, but not instantaneous photography that he has preached over the years. . .

ANY good photographer does that -- and HCB admitted that he did it. My very strong suspicion is that "instantaneous photography" is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation or simple fantasy.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Scrambler]

...
It may be HCB did see a great location, and wanted a person in a certain spot to make it work.
That is all and fine, but not instantaneous photography that he has preached over the years.
It still gets a great photograph... but a bit manipulate on his part.
Which is fine also.
...

There is no "may be" about it: he frequently did exactly this. His approach was very visual, and the framing, environment, lighting were all part of what he intended in the picture. He would chose particular times of day for particular locations, wait for people to come to "complete" the picture. This is the meaning of "the decisive moment" ... that time when the scene is most visibly what it is in essence, when it reveals itself fully in what at any other time is a potential or a memory.

It's not manipulation, it is seeing the scene in artistic terms and waiting for reality to match the vision.

That's not Communism. It might be platonism...

 

[Rodchenko]

I'm not sure the way he ate his croissant in the morning was necessarily communism, either, but it doesn't negate his beliefs and their influence on his viewpoint.

 

[Scrambler]

I'm not sure the way he ate his croissant in the morning was necessarily communism, either, but it doesn't negate his beliefs and their influence on his viewpoint.

I don't disagree. My comment was in response to the post I quoted.

DNG said:
Maybe that is the Communist part of some of his photography.. (the manipulated part on his part while he waits for the last element to enter the frame )

 

[Ansel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyhMqDfmG9o

Within the first 2 minutes Bresson discusses surrealism and how Capa advised him not to let himself be labelled as surrealist, even though all his training had been in surrealism.

He goes onto to explain [@ 9.50] how his photography was "nourished by his own life, his tastes, and intellectual luggage, his love and his hate. His experiences." So if he was a Communist then I guess that would affect his outlook also. To say it was not relevant to his work is missing the point.

On how difficult it is to take great pictures he states: "You have to milk the cow quite a lot and get plenty of milk to make a little cheese". Great line!

 

[Sparrow]

I'm not sure the way he ate his croissant in the morning was necessarily communism, either, but it doesn't negate his beliefs and their influence on his viewpoint.

... that was consumerism surely?

 

[David Hughes]

There is no "may be" about it: he frequently did exactly this. His approach was very visual, and the framing, environment, lighting were all part of what he intended in the picture. He would chose particular times of day for particular locations, wait for people to come to "complete" the picture. This is the meaning of "the decisive moment" ... that time when the scene is most visibly what it is in essence, when it reveals itself fully in what at any other time is a potential or a memory.

It's not manipulation, it is seeing the scene in artistic terms and waiting for reality to match the vision.

That's not Communism. It might be platonism...

Hi,

That's what I think about most good/famous photographers. And I think that once he'd got to the waiting stage he'd hardly take 600 photo's.

Of course, that other famous exhibition " the man in the red sweater" rather knocks that on the head but it was about the picture postcard trade...

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

Someone will take this seriously...

Someone will take this seriously...

I'm not sure the way he ate his croissant in the morning was necessarily communism, either, but it doesn't negate his beliefs and their influence on his viewpoint.

Hi,

That's croissantism, perhaps it's how the misunderstanding about his politics happened.

Regards, David

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

... that was consumerism surely?

Or possibly deconstructivism?

 

[Sparrow]

Hi,

That's croissantism, perhaps it's how the misunderstanding about his politics happened.

Regards, David

... yes could be, Henri called that book The Snapshot but his publisher changed it to The Decisive Moment 🙂

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

... yes could be, Henri called that book The Snapshot but his publisher changed it to The Decisive Moment

Aha! momentism

 

[Rodchenko]

This thread, at least, is getting increasingly surreal!

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

That could be the effect of synchronism 😀

 

[Sparrow]

This thread, at least, is getting increasingly surreal!

... it was never going to end well ... I'm pretty sure he was more of a socialist anyway

 

[Rodchenko]

Anyone who doesn't like photography by communists doesn't have to look at his work. Nor that of Capa, Chim etc etc

And Rodchenko, of course! 😉

 

[kbg32]

HCB on being an artist - "He dismissed others' applications of the term "art" to his photographs, which he thought were merely his gut reactions to moments in time that he had happened upon."

I wonder if he ate his croissant with a knife and fork?

 

[Sparrow]

It's a well known fact that all frenchmen dunk their croissant in coffee with too much milk in it for breakfast