Leica LTM Cassette Sizes (A & M)

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I think we've all noticed the differences in size of cassettes and so one day I decided to get my hands on as many as possible and measure them. Here's the results:-

Cassette Size Notes

Fuji C200 42.4mm Modern
Kodak BW400CN 42.5mm Modern

Anon (Modern) 43.2mm 60's
Ilford FP3 43.6mm 70's ?
USSR (ШХЗ) 43.6mm In FED 1f

Leica (M Series) 44.1mm Chrome Button
Contax 44.9mm Metal
Agfa 45.0mm " fur Agfa-Leica-Film"

Anon (Contax) 45.7mm
FED 45.7mm
Zeiss Ikon 45.8mm 540/01

E Leizt 46.4mm 1B
Anon (Contax) 46.4mm In "Wasp" loader
E Leitz 1B 46.5mm Dirty
Anon (E Leitz) 46.5mm
E Leizt 46.8mm Early (Bent Tab)
Anon (E Leitz) 47.0mm

They may be of interest and certainly explain why the film sometimes jumps off of the sprockets in some cameras, especially older ones without film guides. I hope the notes are obvious.

The measurements were taken by ignoring the spool ends. This picture should show the difference in size between the oldest and newest and aligned by the film slots. The callipers behind should show the position they were used for the measurements.

In future I'll make a few card washers and put, perhaps, two one end and one the other end.

Regards, David

 

[loquax ludens]

Thank you for that interesting comparison, David. I haven't tried it, but it would not surprise me if loading a modern Fuji cartridge (the shortest in your example) into a Leica screwmount camera like my IIIc, might lead to film feeding problems. There is a considerable difference in cartridge length between the Fuji and the various flavors of FILCA.

Do you know if there are international standards that specify cartridge dimension parameters, and what the history of changes has been?

 

[colyn]

Interesting information.

My IIIf has the foot in the base plate so I have no issues with film drooping but my IIIa and IIIc does if I use a film brand cassette instead of my FILCA's.

Making felt shims to fill in the difference is easy for those who don't use the FILCA. Just cut a round shim and place it on the door lock.

The brass cassette you have pictured is not a Leica brand FILCA but instead an off brand. I have one just like it which I had to slightly file the 2 rivet heads on the lock arm to get it to drop into the film chamber. Do you by any chance know what brand it is??

Does not work in my daylight film loader since it locks open and has to be manually unlocked to close so I have to pre-cut the film length and load in the darkroom.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I can only answer about the history and say that the more you read the more confusing it gets. F'instance, Oskar Barnack made the original Leica in 1912, 1913, 1914 and 1915 according to four different authorities.

Most small items are badly recorded and, even reading old magazines, confuses the issue. Advertisers used old pictures of the Leica with the "Anastigmat" lens long after it had been replaced and even the instruction books - whilst dated - show a mix of old and new photographs of the equipment.

I once set out to discover what lens cap should be on my IIIa and it took months and cost a lot of money. I'd like to do the same with the spools in the cassettes but dread the job.

Perhaps some of our friends in Germany have access to better sources?

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

"The brass cassette you have pictured is not a Leica brand FILCA but instead an off brand. I have one just like it which I had to slightly file the 2 rivet heads on the lock arm to get it to drop into the film chamber. Do you by any chance know what brand it is?"

Hi,

I was told it was one of the early ones but that's all I can say. Except that it has what looks like "428" stamped badly on it in two places, inner and outer shells. It hasn't got the grooves introduced, perhaps, with the 1B either.

I've several FILCA's and they are not all the same. Some with and some without the curved line for the template check, for example.

Regards, David

 

[colyn]

Mine does not have any markings except for the "Z" on top of the inner shell. All of my other FILCA's are the standard versions.

Maybe Tom A can help since he probably has more FILCA's than all of us combined.. 😀

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

There's another thread just starting saying what is it and Tom A says an early one. It's here:-

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120936

And one of my books says the straight tab version only appeared as a spare from 1931. Certainly I've seen early adverts for them with 2 spools as a kit and without (please don't ask me to trace them I've a shelf full... ).

It's fun isn't it?

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

About post no 5.

It was Erik van Straten who told me it was an original Leica cassette from the early days.

Regards, David

 

[Dralowid]

...gives me the chance to get my hands on Shirley Wellard again...as if I needed an excuse!

 

[loquax ludens]

Those Shirley Wellard cassettes must be pretty rare in the US. I've been looking for awhile, and I haven't come across any yet for sale in the US. They do come up fairly often on the ebay UK site. There are some there now, in fact. Most post only to the UK or Europe.

 

[David Hughes]

Those Shirley Wellard cassettes must be pretty rare in the US. I've been looking for awhile, and I haven't come across any yet for sale in the US. They do come up fairly often on the ebay UK site. There are some there now, in fact. Most post only to the UK or Europe.

Hi,

Getting the proper bench mounting winder for the SW cassettes is even harder but don't give up...

Regards, David

 

[loquax ludens]

I've never even seen one, David. Are they essential for loading the SW cassette?

 

[David Hughes]

I've never even seen one, David. Are they essential for loading the SW cassette?

Hi,

They are what I'd call a display item. Most reloadable stuff from then is more for display than use. I'll make an exception for the AGRIF but little else. Film in cassettes is so cheap here. (This is not a popular opinion, btw, but I pay under a pound for Fuji 24 exposures in my local supermarket: I just hope they don't read this post.)

Regards, David

 

[botty]

I have a number of these brass cassettes that came with a contax I collection.

I would like to give it a go using them. I have a Bobineuse Sommor bulk loader. I guess I will need to use this in a changing bag to actually wind on the film to cassette due to a very slight mismatch of the cassette size and the loader.

However once the cassette is filled and rotated to 'closed' (Zu on my cassettes) how light tight are they?

 

[johannielscom]

Can't say nothing about Contax cassettes, but I have yet to hear of a light-leaking FILCA or IXMOO if all precautions are considered: don't load them in full sunlight, and make sure they have no dents or bends.

The overlapping metal parts work as light traps and do the job if you take the above into consideration.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've never even seen one, David. Are they essential for loading the SW cassette?

Not in the least. But they're pretty. And useful if you do find one. I have one, boxed, somewhere.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

...gives me the chance to get my hands on Shirley Wellard again...as if I needed an excuse!

Which is of course adjustable for height: see manufacturer's/distributor's instruction leaflet, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps shirley wellard.html

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Oh; and David; Thanks VERY MUCH for this. Out with the Vernier callipers and the old cassettes tomorrow!

Cheers,

R.

 

[David Hughes]

Oh; and David; Thanks VERY MUCH for this. Out with the Vernier callipers and the old cassettes tomorrow!

Cheers,

R.

All part of the service, Roger.

BTW, for everyone else, I always thought SW was over complicated. The "Nebro" winder is the model to chase after imo. Ditto the AGRIF from Leitz but you could make one of those from a bit of dowel or an old wooden pencil...

Regards, David