dave lackey
Veteran
It has been awhile since I backed away and thought about the overall perspective of film photography. Time to check the pulse.
It is sad to think that with Fujifilm getting out of film at an ever-increasing pace, we have lost a great source of film. Regardless of their reasons, we are being left stranded with few options. I cannot say I like Fuji any more, but that is just me.
Maybe it is good for the financial health of Kodak and Ilford that the market shares will shift to those left. Maybe not.
The pulse is weak, right? Since we drive the film market but depend on suppliers for film, we are in a pinch. What can we do?
Is it time to plan ahead for film shooters to stock up and fill our freezers? I wish I had bought tons of Acros and other films long ago and still had the luxury of using preferred films of choice.
But I do have a year's supply of 35mm and looking at stocking up on bulk Double X, and 120 film.
What do you think?
It is sad to think that with Fujifilm getting out of film at an ever-increasing pace, we have lost a great source of film. Regardless of their reasons, we are being left stranded with few options. I cannot say I like Fuji any more, but that is just me.
Maybe it is good for the financial health of Kodak and Ilford that the market shares will shift to those left. Maybe not.
The pulse is weak, right? Since we drive the film market but depend on suppliers for film, we are in a pinch. What can we do?
Is it time to plan ahead for film shooters to stock up and fill our freezers? I wish I had bought tons of Acros and other films long ago and still had the luxury of using preferred films of choice.
But I do have a year's supply of 35mm and looking at stocking up on bulk Double X, and 120 film.
What do you think?
robert blu
quiet photographer
I admit now to shoot more digital than film. But when I shoot film, both 120 and 35mm I like it very much. For B&W I like Ilford and try to support it. For color I have not a preferred film, sometimes Kodak, sometimes Fuji.
And I shoot Impossible/Polaroid...
At my age, being realistic I think film production will survive long enough for my needs...
robert
And I shoot Impossible/Polaroid...
At my age, being realistic I think film production will survive long enough for my needs...
robert
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I never like(d) any FujiNoFilm. I like Ilford film but thier greed is same as Kodak now.
I don't have money for greedy.
My final solution is old stock cinefilm. It is OK in bw developer and enlargable.
For now I have couple of regular bulks.
I quit from LR and MF, waste of time and now money.
I don't have money for greedy.
My final solution is old stock cinefilm. It is OK in bw developer and enlargable.
For now I have couple of regular bulks.
I quit from LR and MF, waste of time and now money.
dave lackey
Veteran
mcfingon
Western Australia
I think the pulse is strong Dave. I have been using Ilford film since 1976 and have always been able to get what I need easily. There are a number of alternatives available as Ko.Fe points out, and the internet increases the ease of getting those. I see film as a healthy niche survivor, with many years to run before its pulse ceases.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I still shoot a good bit of film. Little color film except in 810, but the occasional roll of 35 goes through a camera. B&W is all film save snapshots with the XPro2.
I shoot Portra 160 and soon some 400 in 810.
B&W is:
Rollei Ortho 25 in 35
Rollei RPX 25 in 35
PanF+ in 35 and 120
Fp4+ in 120 and 810
Hp5+ in 35, 120 and 810 (I still have some in 45 in the fridge, but barely ever use that)
ORWO UN54 in 35
ORWO N74 in 35
5222 XX in 35
Down to my last couple of rolls of EFKE 25.
I also just got in some Delta 100 120 that I used to shoot a lot of, but had slipped out of rotation.
And coming soon, some HP5+ in 1114.
I shoot Portra 160 and soon some 400 in 810.
B&W is:
Rollei Ortho 25 in 35
Rollei RPX 25 in 35
PanF+ in 35 and 120
Fp4+ in 120 and 810
Hp5+ in 35, 120 and 810 (I still have some in 45 in the fridge, but barely ever use that)
ORWO UN54 in 35
ORWO N74 in 35
5222 XX in 35
Down to my last couple of rolls of EFKE 25.
I also just got in some Delta 100 120 that I used to shoot a lot of, but had slipped out of rotation.
And coming soon, some HP5+ in 1114.
willie_901
Veteran
It depends.
The INSTAX market remains strong. FUJIFILM just announced a new INSTAX camera, the SQ6. They also just signed a global INSTAX promotional deal with Taylor Swift. FUJIFILM sells a lot of film. Some people believe the FUJIFILM X and GFX series cameras only exist because of INSTAX profits.
Otherwise, the non-INSTAX the film market seems to be a glass half-full or half-empty proposition. It seems FUJIFILM is not interested in other film formats. Does this mean the global demand for other formats is to small to meet FUJIFILM's return-on-equity born income growth business goals? Some say the only reason Kodak remains in the film business was a huge run of cinema film. Others point to pockets of growth around the world. Every report of bad news about film usage will be meet with report about revived interest in film photography. For instance, the recent Netflix film "Kodachrome" was shot using 35mm Kodachrome film. The optimist will see this as a good sign for film while the pessimist will point out this is the last film in history shot using Kodachrome.
I think following the market prices for used high-quality film cameras is a valid way to gauge what's going on in film photography.
As a group, people using film now are unlikely to significantly increase their usage. New non-INSTAX film photographers are required for growth. Growth will increase the demand for used film cameras. So long-term price trends will tell the tale. I think stable equipment price levels would be reason for optimism.
Just because non-INSTAX film photography is a niche market doesn't mean can't be a healthy market. Thriving niche markets are not rare. It just means there could be less choices for film media. The films that survive can be excellent products. They will likely increase in price.
The INSTAX market remains strong. FUJIFILM just announced a new INSTAX camera, the SQ6. They also just signed a global INSTAX promotional deal with Taylor Swift. FUJIFILM sells a lot of film. Some people believe the FUJIFILM X and GFX series cameras only exist because of INSTAX profits.
Otherwise, the non-INSTAX the film market seems to be a glass half-full or half-empty proposition. It seems FUJIFILM is not interested in other film formats. Does this mean the global demand for other formats is to small to meet FUJIFILM's return-on-equity born income growth business goals? Some say the only reason Kodak remains in the film business was a huge run of cinema film. Others point to pockets of growth around the world. Every report of bad news about film usage will be meet with report about revived interest in film photography. For instance, the recent Netflix film "Kodachrome" was shot using 35mm Kodachrome film. The optimist will see this as a good sign for film while the pessimist will point out this is the last film in history shot using Kodachrome.
I think following the market prices for used high-quality film cameras is a valid way to gauge what's going on in film photography.
As a group, people using film now are unlikely to significantly increase their usage. New non-INSTAX film photographers are required for growth. Growth will increase the demand for used film cameras. So long-term price trends will tell the tale. I think stable equipment price levels would be reason for optimism.
Just because non-INSTAX film photography is a niche market doesn't mean can't be a healthy market. Thriving niche markets are not rare. It just means there could be less choices for film media. The films that survive can be excellent products. They will likely increase in price.
LCSmith
Well-known
Ko.Fe. your posts always crack me up.
John Lawrence
Well-known
The pulse is still beating and I'm still shooting.
John
John
EarlJam
Established
There's a range of B+W emulsions outside of the "big 3". I've recently started using Fomapan, thus far happy with the results. Here's a recent shot on Fomapan 400, overcast day, with a K2 (yellow) filter to punch things up a bit. I also have some Agfa and Bergger in the freezer.
Long way of saying that, in the long run, B+W may survive as a boutique film while color is mostly ceded to digital, save for Ferrania.
Long way of saying that, in the long run, B+W may survive as a boutique film while color is mostly ceded to digital, save for Ferrania.
Attachments
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I don't think it is weak so much as skipping beats. At one moment a new film is being introduced; at another, one or another film is discontinued. Film is in afib.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
The release of new Ektachrome as promised would be an encouraging sign and a step in the right direction.
Chris
Chris
B-9
Devin Bro
I can tell film is very much alive by the prices of the cameras.
Nikon F3's have risen in price over the last few years.
The Nikon F6 is still in good demand getting almost twice the dollar as say a Nikon D700 or even D600.
Premium Compacts like the Yashica And Contax T have inflated to crazy high prices.
I remember buying a Yashica T4 for 0.65$ years ago... no one wanted those cameras when I joined RFF
Nikon F3's have risen in price over the last few years.
The Nikon F6 is still in good demand getting almost twice the dollar as say a Nikon D700 or even D600.
Premium Compacts like the Yashica And Contax T have inflated to crazy high prices.
I remember buying a Yashica T4 for 0.65$ years ago... no one wanted those cameras when I joined RFF
muser53
MUSER53
To paraphrase Frank Zappa, "Film isn't dead it just smells funny."
Steve M.
Veteran
Fuji has a history of dropping films, so I wouldn't worry over that. I didn't shoot their film anyway unless it was to buy some rolls of their cheap colour film to test a camera with.
My guess is that the niche B&W film market will remain as strong as it is for some time. Many of us that shoot film won't shoot digital, so it's film or nuthin I suppose.
Right now I'm looking at a Beseler 23C enlarger that is taking up a lot of room in my place, and putting together large trays and expensive papers to do some large printing. It's a lot of trouble and expense to shoot film, but scanning and fooling w/ expensive and finicky ink jet printers was worse. You do what you have to do to get the best results, and I can't get the same look w/ digital, so I have no problems w/ the film workflow. In my mind, film will be around for a long time because it's the only way to get a darkroom made print.
My guess is that the niche B&W film market will remain as strong as it is for some time. Many of us that shoot film won't shoot digital, so it's film or nuthin I suppose.
Right now I'm looking at a Beseler 23C enlarger that is taking up a lot of room in my place, and putting together large trays and expensive papers to do some large printing. It's a lot of trouble and expense to shoot film, but scanning and fooling w/ expensive and finicky ink jet printers was worse. You do what you have to do to get the best results, and I can't get the same look w/ digital, so I have no problems w/ the film workflow. In my mind, film will be around for a long time because it's the only way to get a darkroom made print.
presspass
filmshooter
Still shooting about two rolls a week. I went all Ilford a number of years ago because they continue to provide film and paper for wet printing.
NickTrop
Veteran
I was an ardent defender of film -- still am. But not for small format. With each generation of (especially full frame) digital cameras has eclipsed the technical arguments for sticking with small format film. Dynamic range, check. Low light performance, check. Resolution, check. Plus, film users often scan to get "the best of both worlds". Wow. Talk about a tedious process and you end up with a digital file in the end. Add to this the lack of places to develop color film. That changed in my neck of the woods seemingly overnight. I do not think this bodes well for small format.
Film has its place, however, in:
1. Medium and large format. Digital still cant touch it -- at least not cost effectively.
2. As a tactile pleasure hobby. Yes, it is great fun processing your own film. Yes, it is "magic" making wet prints. Yes, firing off a frame of film still has a special tactile pleasure to it. Yes, vintage camera gear is way cool. And, yes, the output technically is right up there with digital (though in most respects digital has edged out film).
Ultimately, film manufactures will cut lines, others add until "equilibrium" is achieved between supply, demand, and pricing. From an economics stand-point, my take, therefore take it with a grain, is that film in its hayday was elastic regarding price. Kodak raised its price by a dime for 400 speed film, a buyer my opt for Fuji. Now, because film is more of a niche market consisting of die hard film users, it is now inelastic so suppliers can raise prices without it affecting demand. This will prompt price increases. Just my take -- like I said, take it with a grain.
Film has its place, however, in:
1. Medium and large format. Digital still cant touch it -- at least not cost effectively.
2. As a tactile pleasure hobby. Yes, it is great fun processing your own film. Yes, it is "magic" making wet prints. Yes, firing off a frame of film still has a special tactile pleasure to it. Yes, vintage camera gear is way cool. And, yes, the output technically is right up there with digital (though in most respects digital has edged out film).
Ultimately, film manufactures will cut lines, others add until "equilibrium" is achieved between supply, demand, and pricing. From an economics stand-point, my take, therefore take it with a grain, is that film in its hayday was elastic regarding price. Kodak raised its price by a dime for 400 speed film, a buyer my opt for Fuji. Now, because film is more of a niche market consisting of die hard film users, it is now inelastic so suppliers can raise prices without it affecting demand. This will prompt price increases. Just my take -- like I said, take it with a grain.
css9450
Veteran
I wonder: Is that really a big thing? I don't know anyone who has one, nor have I ever seen one that I know of. Or maybe I'm just not the target audience. I know there are some members (HHPhoto? Skiff, I think, or maybe they're the same person?) who like the Instax system but it seems like a niche within a niche, so to speak. But I might be completely wrong.
mynikonf2
OEM
Tuff but Survivable
Tuff but Survivable
Have a freezer stocked with my favorite films, maybe enough to out last me but anyway, I do believe that film will always be in demand and demand drives production. Perhaps the larger, profit driven film producers will fall by the wayside but that will open opportunities for smaller more dedicated film markers to step up.
So I'm fairly optimistic about the future of film, just like the vinyl records, film will wane and the younger generations will rediscover film...
Tuff but Survivable
Have a freezer stocked with my favorite films, maybe enough to out last me
but anyway, I do believe that film will always be in demand and demand drives production. Perhaps the larger, profit driven film producers will fall by the wayside but that will open opportunities for smaller more dedicated film markers to step up. So I'm fairly optimistic about the future of film, just like the vinyl records, film will wane and the younger generations will rediscover film...
objectowcer
Newbie
I was at target a little after christmas, and the store was out of minifilm. A couple was there trying to buy some, and after being told they didn't have any, the couple talked about how it was sold out everywhere. The target guys were talking about how insane the demand was. The had been asked a lot about it that day.
Granted, this was after the holiday, so who knows how many people just got one, wanted to buy film, and then would never use it again.
The film been at the top of the amazon best seller list in all of camera and photo for at least a year. Checking now, it's in the number one and two spots, with a camera at number four.
This is all anecdotal, but I think it does very well.