zhang xk
Well-known
Hello everyone,
I found a decent image of the famous Chinese Leica M4 copy, the Red Flag 20 with its accessary lenses. Less than 200 cameras were made between 1970-1977 under the instruction of Mao's wife- Madam Jiang. Madam Jiang used a M3 or maybe sometims a Kiev 4. Production cost for a Red Flag 20 camera alone was about US$6,000 in 1970's dollars, so that you can understand why I never had a chance to handle one. :bang: Even an image like this is not that easy to find now.
However, I do managed to find a Red Flag mechanical watch and a 16mm sine camera with the same Mao's style logo.
I heard that the optical and mechanical quality of those accessary lenses are comprable to their German originals.
Another image is a close-up of an early Shanghai 58-2 in near mint condition in my collection.
Cheers,
Zhang
I found a decent image of the famous Chinese Leica M4 copy, the Red Flag 20 with its accessary lenses. Less than 200 cameras were made between 1970-1977 under the instruction of Mao's wife- Madam Jiang. Madam Jiang used a M3 or maybe sometims a Kiev 4. Production cost for a Red Flag 20 camera alone was about US$6,000 in 1970's dollars, so that you can understand why I never had a chance to handle one. :bang: Even an image like this is not that easy to find now.
However, I do managed to find a Red Flag mechanical watch and a 16mm sine camera with the same Mao's style logo.
I heard that the optical and mechanical quality of those accessary lenses are comprable to their German originals.
Another image is a close-up of an early Shanghai 58-2 in near mint condition in my collection.
Cheers,
Zhang
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captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
Wow!!! Zhang, I'm really beginning to look forward to your posts!
lushd
Donald
captainslack said:
May I say the same?
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
Wow, I wonder how much one of those RF20s would go for at a nice Christie's aution today? Slightly OT: why did Mao give orders for these to be made when the Leicas would function perfectly? National pride?
lushd
Donald
And some naughty forgers are now in the market for any bashed up M series cameras and are warming up their engraving tools as we speak. L@@@@K, rare, Chinese Leica, collectors item! Arghh!
zhang xk
Well-known
captainslack said:
Yes, I know many GAS would like to know what was made behind the curtains.
Since many gears made behind the iron curtains have been discovered, it is time for a show off of those made behind the bamboo curtains. I have many of these, but I am not sure if I should post them here? Many of them were not mentioned in that book about Chinese cameras by St. Denny.zhang xk
Well-known
erikhaugsby said:
I guess an outfit like that would go at least for about $10,000.
Mao himself did not care much for cameras. He passed a state gift of a Kiev 4 from a visiting Soviet leader to his personal cook!
It was his wife Jiang who gave the order because she liked the Leica M3 so much.
It turned out that a precision camera was not that easy to make with the engineering capability China had at that time. On the other hand, some Chinese mechanical watches are of very good quality even in the 1960's. China also made some very good quality TLRs as early as 1960 that are Rolleicord copies.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Please do show us some/all of these!zhang xk said:Yes, I know many GAS would like to know what was made behind the curtains.
I have enjoyed all the various photos of your collection you have shared with us and would love to see more!
Rob
zhang xk
Well-known
lushd said:
Hi Donald,
Have you got some interesting Chinese cameras to add to your collection of Russian gears?
Here is an image of a top end Chinese SLR FYI, and it is a rare "gold" plated edition version made by the factory. And a black one as well.
Cheers,
Zhang
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bob cole
Well-known
Chinese Red Flag 20 and lenses
Zhang, here are some more JPEGs...The first ones are from Leica Copies, by HPR; the last, courtesy of Jessops in London, is from 300 Leica Copies by Pont/Princelle, which says the camera's quality was "hazardous". HPR says the camera was never sold to the public but used as a gift for state visitors and later used by the press, police, universities and hospitals...regards, bob cole
more to kum ...the machine is acting up
Zhang, here are some more JPEGs...The first ones are from Leica Copies, by HPR; the last, courtesy of Jessops in London, is from 300 Leica Copies by Pont/Princelle, which says the camera's quality was "hazardous". HPR says the camera was never sold to the public but used as a gift for state visitors and later used by the press, police, universities and hospitals...regards, bob cole
more to kum ...the machine is acting up
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R
ruben
Guest
zhang xk said:
Dear comrade Zhang,
Although somewhat unpolite, yet logical, I am curious about Madam XK feelings on your first hand knowledge of Madam Jiang tastes and manners.
Your friend,
Ruben
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mac_wt
Cameras are like bunnies
That's a pretty weird camera. It looks like an M3 with M5 aesthetics and I think it has a swing back. Thanks for posting those pics.
Wim
Wim
pvdhaar
Peter
Very informative Zhang, and really interesting picture!
I had never imagined there were actually Leica M copies being made..
And if any, I'd have guessed them to come from the FSU, given that they copied the Barnacks already in the thirties..
Is the Red Flag such a close copy that you could interchange the lenses? It's clear that there's a lot of difference with an M4 on the outside though (rewind lever, top plate shape..)..
I had never imagined there were actually Leica M copies being made..
And if any, I'd have guessed them to come from the FSU, given that they copied the Barnacks already in the thirties..
Is the Red Flag such a close copy that you could interchange the lenses? It's clear that there's a lot of difference with an M4 on the outside though (rewind lever, top plate shape..)..
zhang xk
Well-known
ruben said:
Dear Ruben,
I think her image is very low among Chinese people. If she devoted more time to her healthy hobby than political stuggle, then she might have a better image.
Now Chinese people's feeling to those currupted and repressive officials is hatred.
Cheers,
Zhang
zhang xk
Well-known
bob cole said:
I saw quite a few of these about 10 years ago at XINHUA's camera equipment store along with used Rolleiflex, Leica M, and others. I don't remember China made a really good quality 135mm camera including those SLRs. Some later Seagull DFs and K-1000s are not too bad though.
But some Chinese TLRs are quite good. Some XINHUA's professionals used Seagull 4A in the 1970's.
zhang xk
Well-known
pvdhaar said:
Thanks Peter for your interest. Yes, Reg Flag 20 is the only Leica M copy made by any country. China also made a Hassylbald 500C copy, the famous Dong Feng(east wind) and a Rolleifalex 2.8F copy, a Pearl River 7 at about the same time.
The Dong Feng even has a 1/1000 top speed leaf shutter!
I heard that those accessary lenses are exact Leica M copies. The 50/1.4 is a Summilux copy of 7 elements in 5 groups. But I never used this camera so I am not sure if these lenses can be used on a Leica M camera.
Cheers,
Zhang
zhang xk
Well-known
rbiemer said:
Hi Rob,
Thanks for your interest. Although not a rangefiner camera, It is certainly much rarer than the Red Flag 20. This is a Chinese high speed 16mm cine camera. Only some 60 cameras were made until recently.
I is also much less often seen than the 16mm Red Flag and 35mm Heping (peace) cine cameras.
I am a hopeless GAS
Kind Regards
Zhang
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Solinar
Analog Preferred
It is interesting how they cloned the look of the Leica M series. I've never seen this camera. Does the 20 in the name Red Flag 20 signify that it was made around 1970?
zhang xk
Well-known
Solinar said:
Yes, I think so.(1949-1969)
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
zhang xk said:Yes, I know many GAS would like to know what was made behind the curtains.
Yes, by all means post more. I have found your posts on Chinese made cameras very interesting and informative. I could stand some re-education on the subject for sure.
Nikon Bob