zhang xk
Well-known
Nikon Bob said:
Many thanks for the kind words.
I will try to find more images of interesting vintage Chinese cameras plus some of mine.
Here is a prototype Shanghai 58-1. Less than 2000 Shanghai 58-1s were made in 1958, and a prototype is a super rare camera! It looks like an exact copy of a Leica III F. The image is from a Chinese cameras site. 试制品 means prototype.
Also an image taken with a Seagull TLR by JINYU (gold fish).
Now PSed a bit of the top image of this 58-1 FYI.
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oftheherd
Veteran
zhang xk said:Yes, I know many GAS would like to know what was made behind the curtains.
By all means post as many as you can and wish. Like others here, I find it very interesting and informative. Thanks so much for those you have already posted.
You should do a book of your own since you seem to have access to many more than St. Denny. It is never too soon to document things like that since as time goes by memories fade as to details of numbers made or reasons. Thanks again.
zhang xk
Well-known
HONG QI (red flag 16mm movie camera)
HONG QI (red flag 16mm movie camera)
Here is an image of the popular(more common) Red Flag S-16 16mm spring drive movie camera. I saw a rare motor drive version last year, but I did not buy it. This image is from another collector. I have a same one.
Another image is a much less often seen Heping (peace) motor drive 35 mm movie camera. I saw a couple of them for sale last year. These were made by the same factory that made those Pheonix 205 rangefnder cameras.
HONG QI (red flag 16mm movie camera)
Here is an image of the popular(more common) Red Flag S-16 16mm spring drive movie camera. I saw a rare motor drive version last year, but I did not buy it. This image is from another collector. I have a same one.
Another image is a much less often seen Heping (peace) motor drive 35 mm movie camera. I saw a couple of them for sale last year. These were made by the same factory that made those Pheonix 205 rangefnder cameras.
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zhang xk
Well-known
Dong Feng (east wind) 120 SLR
Dong Feng (east wind) 120 SLR
Dong Feng 120 SLR ,like the Red Flag 20, is another attempt to produce a top end camera. It is a copy of a Hassylbald 500C, but with a top speed of 1/1000 second.
Only 97 cameas were made , and an out fit was retailed at more then RMB 9000 in the 1970's, when a Leica M3 with a normal lens was only about RMB2000-3000.
So the camera was hard to sell for the very high price.
The owner of this camera is a well known Chinese camera collector. I heard that he sold part of his collection of vintage Chinese cameas a few years ago for US$100,000. He also has some other versions of this camera.
BTW, a Kiev 4 was priced at RMB 1200+ in the 1970's as a luxury item. A Rolex watch was only RMB 300+ then. A Chinese Seagull 4A was about RMB 200.
But don't take the price information seriously. That only gives you a rough idea.
Dong Feng (east wind) 120 SLR
Dong Feng 120 SLR ,like the Red Flag 20, is another attempt to produce a top end camera. It is a copy of a Hassylbald 500C, but with a top speed of 1/1000 second.
Only 97 cameas were made , and an out fit was retailed at more then RMB 9000 in the 1970's, when a Leica M3 with a normal lens was only about RMB2000-3000.
So the camera was hard to sell for the very high price.
The owner of this camera is a well known Chinese camera collector. I heard that he sold part of his collection of vintage Chinese cameas a few years ago for US$100,000. He also has some other versions of this camera.
BTW, a Kiev 4 was priced at RMB 1200+ in the 1970's as a luxury item. A Rolex watch was only RMB 300+ then. A Chinese Seagull 4A was about RMB 200.
But don't take the price information seriously. That only gives you a rough idea.
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zhang xk
Well-known
oftheherd said:
Thanks for the kind advice. There are many items that are not mentioned in St. Denny's book, but most are not rangefinder items. That is why I am not sure if they are of any interest for members of this forum.
It seems to me that products made for military use are of considerably higher quality than consumer or civilian products. For example, these two lenses in Hassylbald mount are very high quality products. I have never heard of a 1000mm F8 mirror lens in hassylbald mount. The 311mm F5 prime lens also delivers high quality images. These may represent the true engineering capability of Chinese optical industry in the early days.
Attached is an image of the 1000/8 mirror lens on a Canon 300D, and the 311mm F5 lens. The 311mm prime lens has no S/N or any marks. I heard these were used for battle field surveys.
Cheers.
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zhang xk
Well-known
Shanghai 7 rangefinder camera
Shanghai 7 rangefinder camera
Only prototypes were made. Exact number of cameras is unknown. It looks like a copy of the Zorki 6, one of my favorite Russian rangefinder cameras. Photo was borrowed from www.chinesecamera net. I wish it was mass produced.
There are two sites with a lot of information for vintage Chinese cameras:
www.sy916.com
www.chinesecamera.net
They have a lot of camera images that are not found anywhere. But they are only in Chinese.
Shanghai 7 rangefinder camera
Only prototypes were made. Exact number of cameras is unknown. It looks like a copy of the Zorki 6, one of my favorite Russian rangefinder cameras. Photo was borrowed from www.chinesecamera net. I wish it was mass produced.
There are two sites with a lot of information for vintage Chinese cameras:
www.sy916.com
www.chinesecamera.net
They have a lot of camera images that are not found anywhere. But they are only in Chinese.
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zhang xk
Well-known
Zhujiang 7 TLR
Zhujiang 7 TLR
Zhujiang (pearl river) 7 120 TLR is another China made high end camera. About 50 cameras were made since 1970. It never sold well for the outrageous price of RMB 5,300. Some NOS was still at the factory's sale's store a couple of years ago for RMB 20,000. It is the only Rolleiflex 2.8 copy with a Planar formular taking lens.
RMB 5,300 was about 100 times of a young engineer's monthly salary in the 1970's. :bang:
Zhujiang 7 TLR
Zhujiang (pearl river) 7 120 TLR is another China made high end camera. About 50 cameras were made since 1970. It never sold well for the outrageous price of RMB 5,300. Some NOS was still at the factory's sale's store a couple of years ago for RMB 20,000. It is the only Rolleiflex 2.8 copy with a Planar formular taking lens.
RMB 5,300 was about 100 times of a young engineer's monthly salary in the 1970's. :bang:
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zhang xk
Well-known
Anamorphic lenses
Anamorphic lenses
These anamorphic lenses has not been mentioned before, nor images can be found elsewhere. So I post it here FYI.
35mm/2X Changjiang brand was made in Nanjing, and the 16mm 2x Great Wall brand lens was made in Beijing by a Nr.618 factory. The Nr.618 factory also made many types of 35mm and 16mm cine camera lenses since 1960's.
Anamorphic lenses
These anamorphic lenses has not been mentioned before, nor images can be found elsewhere. So I post it here FYI.
35mm/2X Changjiang brand was made in Nanjing, and the 16mm 2x Great Wall brand lens was made in Beijing by a Nr.618 factory. The Nr.618 factory also made many types of 35mm and 16mm cine camera lenses since 1960's.
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taffer
void
To me it's amazing how that RF20 resembles a hybrid between a M4 and a M5...
Maybe that's the appearance Leica had in mind for the TTL M4, which was later transformed directly into the M5 ?
As always, too many questions with no answer...
Thanks for these posts Zhang, they are truly amazing !
Oscar
Maybe that's the appearance Leica had in mind for the TTL M4, which was later transformed directly into the M5 ?
As always, too many questions with no answer...
Thanks for these posts Zhang, they are truly amazing !
Oscar
zhang xk
Well-known
taffer said:To me it's amazing how that RF20 resembles a hybrid between a M4 and a M5...
Maybe that's the appearance Leica had in mind for the TTL M4, which was later transformed directly into the M5 ?
As always, too many questions with no answer...
Thanks for these posts Zhang, they are truly amazing !
Oscar
I just heard a story that Madam Jiang received a gift from a Iranian delegation, a Leica M4 from the Iranian King, and she liked the camera so much that she thought China should make cameras like this. So the Red Flag 20 might be a copy of a Leica M4 with some Chinese touches?
The blue colored 16mm Chun Feng brand (spring wind) cine camera is said to be a copy of an Eclair camera. But I don't think it is an exact copy of anything.
Cheers,
Zhang
zhang xk
Well-known
Seagull 4A type A and B
Seagull 4A type A and B
Here is one of the earliest Seagull 4 A that is different in some details than later versions. The multi-exposure lock button, the strap lugs, and letters on the front plate are not the same. This is a rare camera. It also has caw leather case, while later ones has a pig hide leather case. THis is a very uncommon version of the 4A.
And another image made with a Seagull TLR by the same Jinyu(gold fish).
Seagull 4A type A and B
Here is one of the earliest Seagull 4 A that is different in some details than later versions. The multi-exposure lock button, the strap lugs, and letters on the front plate are not the same. This is a rare camera. It also has caw leather case, while later ones has a pig hide leather case. THis is a very uncommon version of the 4A.
And another image made with a Seagull TLR by the same Jinyu(gold fish).
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zhang xk
Well-known
zhang xk
Well-known
Haiou (Seagull)-52 500mm F5 mirror lens
Haiou (Seagull)-52 500mm F5 mirror lens
This is another lens not mentioned before. It is a Seagull mount (Minolta?) 500mm F5! mirror lens. Probably only a few hundred lenses were made. It focuses down to 15 meters. Optical quality of this lens and the other US$ 1,800 1000mm F10 mirror lens mentioned in St Denny's book is considerably lower than that of the MF 1000mm F8 mirror lens mentioned earlier.
I don't think either lens is a Russian copy.
At the back is a Chinese exact copy of a Zeiss GLF polarizing microscope made by Shanghai Optical Instruments Factory in 1962. Could a precision camea of Red Flag 20 be more difficult to make than a high grade microscope? When Leica MD was only an accessary of a Leitz microscope?
Haiou (Seagull)-52 500mm F5 mirror lens
This is another lens not mentioned before. It is a Seagull mount (Minolta?) 500mm F5! mirror lens. Probably only a few hundred lenses were made. It focuses down to 15 meters. Optical quality of this lens and the other US$ 1,800 1000mm F10 mirror lens mentioned in St Denny's book is considerably lower than that of the MF 1000mm F8 mirror lens mentioned earlier.
I don't think either lens is a Russian copy.
At the back is a Chinese exact copy of a Zeiss GLF polarizing microscope made by Shanghai Optical Instruments Factory in 1962. Could a precision camea of Red Flag 20 be more difficult to make than a high grade microscope? When Leica MD was only an accessary of a Leitz microscope?
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erikhaugsby
killer of threads
Wow, Zhang! Where did you ever find all of this richeous Chinese camera porn?
zhang xk
Well-known
erikhaugsby said:
Because I am a professional GAS. I have an instinct knowing where they are hiding.
John
Well-known
Thank you for these posts Zhang. I have no doubt you could write quite an interesting book on this subject. I am sure the members here are interested in all things photographic and not just rangefinders. Your waterfalls photo is beautiful. Cheers.
zhang xk
Well-known
zhang xk
Well-known
Chinese LF wooden field cameras
Chinese LF wooden field cameras
China made many brands of LF field cameras in many sizes- 12",8",6" as well as studio multi-format cameras.
The retail price of the Seagull WM 12" camera was RMB 585 without lens, and the 6" one was RMB 370. These cameras were made by Shanghai Nr.4 Camera Factory. The factory also made many LF lenses.
Many other factories also made similar cameras and lenses.
Chinese LF wooden field cameras
China made many brands of LF field cameras in many sizes- 12",8",6" as well as studio multi-format cameras.
The retail price of the Seagull WM 12" camera was RMB 585 without lens, and the 6" one was RMB 370. These cameras were made by Shanghai Nr.4 Camera Factory. The factory also made many LF lenses.
Many other factories also made similar cameras and lenses.
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dazedgonebye
Veteran
Very interesting stuff.
I would repeat the call for a book on the subject. Certainly I hope you have photos and technical information in electronic format to be preserved for posterity.
I would repeat the call for a book on the subject. Certainly I hope you have photos and technical information in electronic format to be preserved for posterity.
zhang xk
Well-known
dazedgonebye said:
A book about vintage Chinese cameras could be even more challenging than a one for Russian cameras because there were many more factories of smaller scales that made all sorts of items. I feel a book like that should be written by China Association of Cameras and Watches&Clocks collectors. There is such an Association in Beijing area with a few dozen members. I am not a member yet.
However, I feel I am a more qulified author of vintage mechanical Chinese watches as I am now the co-moderator of this only online English forum for vintage Chinese watches.
http://forums.watchuseek.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72
Here is a 35mm cine zoom lens that should have been made by the Nr.618 factory. But a long time employee of the factory has never heard of it. It is a 35SJ F25-80, 1:2.5 lens with a S/N 72001, and Arri standard mount. I assume only a few prototypes were made.
IIRC, another 35SJ F20-100. 1:2.8 35mm cine zoom lens made by the smae factory was still listed on the factory's cataloug for RMB 35,000(!!) a few years ago.
Cheers,
Zhang
