Rangefinder10
Newbie
Hi to All
I tried rangefinder photography (Leica M6) 4/5 years ago and must confess I struggled a little. Great camera with 35mm lens but...... I found it difficult to see even the framelines of the 35mm lens fitted when my wearing my specs (essential requirement). The viewfinder was the 0.72mm version.
After a year I sold it and went back to SLRs (film and digital). However I miss the compact size and enjoyment of rangefinder shooting, even with its limitations.
My interest is street using wide to standard lens set up
Thinking back I believe that my basic mistake was in not getting the 0.58mm viewfinder which I think would have been much better suited.
I am interested in trying again and would welcome advice on options available, before handing over sizeable amounts of hard earned cash.
Whilst I am looking for some good quality equipment I am not automatically jumping straight back to Leica but want to explore options available that meet my brief:-
Compact sizing
Quality buld of both body and lenses
Either Manual or auto
Easy viewing of wide to standard lenses (24mm to 50mm) whilst wearing specs, preferably without use of additional viewfinder
I am familiar with the quality of zeiss lenses as I have owned a Contax SLRs in the past
A few questions come to mind :-
Do Zeiss have viewfinder options or just the 0.72mm ?
Can viewfinders be adapted to suit specs wearers?
Are the majoity of Zeiss users pleased with their gear ?
I realise that I have posted this on the Zeiss site but both biased and impartial viewpoints would be welcomed as to which options might fit the brief best.
regards
John
I tried rangefinder photography (Leica M6) 4/5 years ago and must confess I struggled a little. Great camera with 35mm lens but...... I found it difficult to see even the framelines of the 35mm lens fitted when my wearing my specs (essential requirement). The viewfinder was the 0.72mm version.
After a year I sold it and went back to SLRs (film and digital). However I miss the compact size and enjoyment of rangefinder shooting, even with its limitations.
My interest is street using wide to standard lens set up
Thinking back I believe that my basic mistake was in not getting the 0.58mm viewfinder which I think would have been much better suited.
I am interested in trying again and would welcome advice on options available, before handing over sizeable amounts of hard earned cash.
Whilst I am looking for some good quality equipment I am not automatically jumping straight back to Leica but want to explore options available that meet my brief:-
Compact sizing
Quality buld of both body and lenses
Either Manual or auto
Easy viewing of wide to standard lenses (24mm to 50mm) whilst wearing specs, preferably without use of additional viewfinder
I am familiar with the quality of zeiss lenses as I have owned a Contax SLRs in the past
A few questions come to mind :-
Do Zeiss have viewfinder options or just the 0.72mm ?
Can viewfinders be adapted to suit specs wearers?
Are the majoity of Zeiss users pleased with their gear ?
I realise that I have posted this on the Zeiss site but both biased and impartial viewpoints would be welcomed as to which options might fit the brief best.
regards
John
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear John,Rangefinder10 said:
No, there's only the 0,72x (0.74x? I forget)
Yes, you can fit dioptre lenses on most (I think all) current RFs. Some people get on with them; others don't. I do. Or you can change your glasses. I'm not kidding. Some glasses (and some face shapes) make it a lot easier than others.
My wife is hoping for a modest inheritance and is considering either an MP which I have) or a ZI (which we have had on long-ish loan for review). She leans towards the MP because it isn't battery dependent. You would probably lean the other way (or towards an M7) because you want exposure automation. All the lenses for either camera are excellent, though there is a bit more choice in Leica glass than Zeiss.
With build quality, as a user of Leicas for close to 40 years; of Voigtländers since they came out; and of Zeiss Ikons on loan (we have a ZI SW at the moment) I'd say that you pretty much get what you pay for, but that even the cheapest cameras (Voigtländers) have stood up to what I would call 'normal abuse' i.e. they are unlikely to fall apart on you.
Cheers,
R.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Roger Hicks said:
I've more than once wished I could change my face shape as easily as my glasses!
Huck Finn
Well-known
The Zeiss Ikon has a larger eyepiece than the M6, which makes it easier to see wide angle frame lines even with standard magnification. Your other option would be Cosina's Bessa R4.
If you can find one, the Konica Hexar RF is built with a .6 magnification standard.
All 3 of these give you wide angle options different than the M6 & without necessarily as much money to lay out. Of course the best option would be to handle samples of the different cameras before buying. If you can't do this at a nearby camera store, you may be able to do so by contacting members here. We are located all over the world & are a friendly group. I would think that someone would be happy to help you.
If you can find one, the Konica Hexar RF is built with a .6 magnification standard.
All 3 of these give you wide angle options different than the M6 & without necessarily as much money to lay out. Of course the best option would be to handle samples of the different cameras before buying. If you can't do this at a nearby camera store, you may be able to do so by contacting members here. We are located all over the world & are a friendly group. I would think that someone would be happy to help you.
triplefinger
Well-known
I am very VERY pleased with my ZI. I have had an MP, M6, M2 and M4p.
the ZI is my favorite, the battery lasts forever(ish) and the viewfinder is CONSIDERABLY brighter than all the Ms.
With the added bonuses of AE(more spontanious shooting ability) and fast loading(no camera bottom to drop by accident), the ZI is the now and future bargain. IMHO.
the ZI is my favorite, the battery lasts forever(ish) and the viewfinder is CONSIDERABLY brighter than all the Ms.
With the added bonuses of AE(more spontanious shooting ability) and fast loading(no camera bottom to drop by accident), the ZI is the now and future bargain. IMHO.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have to agree with the 3finger man. Plus the VF for glass wearers like me is supreme. 35mm frameline is a piece of cake. Get one.triplefinger said:
Joe Vitessa
Well-known
If you're primarily interested in shooting wides, then go for the Bessa 4a or 4m.
BNF
Established
(Non-eyeglass wearer)
I was v e r y tempted by the Ikon, very tempted.
Ultimately, I spent $500 extra bucks and went with a mint M6ttl. I did so because:
1) I could not find an Ikon to handle and test, even for a few minutes in a store.
2) I, like you, previously owned an M and now do not fear "comparing"
3) I like standard frameline offerings from 28-135 - it's just more flexible.
and lastly - I chose an M because I reasoned that for the foreseeable future, I can always buy an Ikon (new) if I so want. (Which I think I will do by the end of the year.)
OTOH The choice of glass has not been so easy. Coming back to film and RF from my last purchase round c7 years ago has been stomach crigingly shocking. I paid more for that lightly used M6ttl now than I paid for it NEW years ago - and the glass that I had? Forget replacing them, even used. (All latest 'crons)
I've gone with 28 and 90 Elmarits and a 21 Biogon. Based on pricing, and my epiphany about the real world differences between ZM or M lenses, I am probably going to go with ZMs for my 50 and, if I add one, 35 as well.
I hope this helps at least a little!
Ciao
I was v e r y tempted by the Ikon, very tempted.
Ultimately, I spent $500 extra bucks and went with a mint M6ttl. I did so because:
1) I could not find an Ikon to handle and test, even for a few minutes in a store.
2) I, like you, previously owned an M and now do not fear "comparing"
3) I like standard frameline offerings from 28-135 - it's just more flexible.
and lastly - I chose an M because I reasoned that for the foreseeable future, I can always buy an Ikon (new) if I so want. (Which I think I will do by the end of the year.)
OTOH The choice of glass has not been so easy. Coming back to film and RF from my last purchase round c7 years ago has been stomach crigingly shocking. I paid more for that lightly used M6ttl now than I paid for it NEW years ago - and the glass that I had? Forget replacing them, even used. (All latest 'crons)
I've gone with 28 and 90 Elmarits and a 21 Biogon. Based on pricing, and my epiphany about the real world differences between ZM or M lenses, I am probably going to go with ZMs for my 50 and, if I add one, 35 as well.
I hope this helps at least a little!
Ciao
Rangefinder10
Newbie
Hi
Thanks for the comments received. I must confess to being tempted by the Zeiss Ikon, but still feel unsure about the viewfinder, from my previous Leica experience.
One problem in the UK is that there are very few locations where you can actually get to see and try one.
The annual "Focus" photographic show will be landing in Birmingham at the end of February, so I am hoping that I may get the opportunity to sample all three main contenders before making up my mind. I really am hoping that Zeiss will fit the bill.
Cheers
John
Thanks for the comments received. I must confess to being tempted by the Zeiss Ikon, but still feel unsure about the viewfinder, from my previous Leica experience.
One problem in the UK is that there are very few locations where you can actually get to see and try one.
The annual "Focus" photographic show will be landing in Birmingham at the end of February, so I am hoping that I may get the opportunity to sample all three main contenders before making up my mind. I really am hoping that Zeiss will fit the bill.
Cheers
John
mfogiel
Veteran
Rangefinder10
For a glass wearer, if you want to be comfortable with most lenses and have a good quality piece of kit, the ZI is not only the only game in town, but it actually is well made and ridiculously cheap in comparison to Leica, especially if you buy directly from Japan (e.g. Matsuiyastore).
To fit your fl specs, you should also get the Zeiss 25/28 external VF, which is splendid.
I prefer Zeiss lenses on average, but I think this is in part a matter of taste, as all the top brands are pretty good. You can take a look at my flickr, and you will find body, lens and film specs next to each photo.
Other bodies, which have acceptable viewfinders and are compact and inexpensive are the Rxx Bessas, but the build quality is lower, and medium to big lenses vignette substantially.
For a glass wearer, if you want to be comfortable with most lenses and have a good quality piece of kit, the ZI is not only the only game in town, but it actually is well made and ridiculously cheap in comparison to Leica, especially if you buy directly from Japan (e.g. Matsuiyastore).
To fit your fl specs, you should also get the Zeiss 25/28 external VF, which is splendid.
I prefer Zeiss lenses on average, but I think this is in part a matter of taste, as all the top brands are pretty good. You can take a look at my flickr, and you will find body, lens and film specs next to each photo.
Other bodies, which have acceptable viewfinders and are compact and inexpensive are the Rxx Bessas, but the build quality is lower, and medium to big lenses vignette substantially.
Rangefinder10
Newbie
Marek
I'm looking forward to trying out the Z1 as soon as I get the opportunity.
You're wetting my appetite
regards
John
I'm looking forward to trying out the Z1 as soon as I get the opportunity.
You're wetting my appetite
regards
John
triplefinger
Well-known
I picked mine up in KEH, very easy, accurate description, good price.
ljsegil
Well-known
I too absolutely must wear eyeglasses, and love my ZI. I owned both an M7 (0.85) and the ZI and sold the Leica as there was simply no comparison of the ease of use of the ZI viewfinder compared to the Leica (although I perhaps erred in getting the 0.85, but dislike less magnification in a smaller viewfinder). The 35mm framelines are easily and fully visible through my glasses in the ZI, and with just a bit of movement I can use the 28mm framelines as well. I could not use the 35mm framelines in the M7. If you like accessory viewfinders, the Zeiss offerings cannot be beat, and I regularly use the 21 and the 25/28 combo.
I personally prefer the rendition of the ZM lenses over the comparable Leica offerings, and will soon be putting my 35mm ASPH Summilux up for sale and happily keeping my new ZM 35/2.0 Biogon. The ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar is a classic and has again supplanted my Leica 50s in frequency of use, and I also like the 21/2.8 Biogon very much.
Basically, as you can gather, I can only rave about the Zeiss rangefinder and the ZM lenses, and hope that other users have been as pleased with their choices as I have.
Best of luck,
LJS
I personally prefer the rendition of the ZM lenses over the comparable Leica offerings, and will soon be putting my 35mm ASPH Summilux up for sale and happily keeping my new ZM 35/2.0 Biogon. The ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar is a classic and has again supplanted my Leica 50s in frequency of use, and I also like the 21/2.8 Biogon very much.
Basically, as you can gather, I can only rave about the Zeiss rangefinder and the ZM lenses, and hope that other users have been as pleased with their choices as I have.
Best of luck,
LJS
MickH
Well-known
Joe Vitessa said:
^^^what he said^^^
A less expensive option than the ZI if buying new, and if you find that you like it you don't need to go any further.
back alley
IMAGES
i wouldn't call the zi a compact camera while the r4a does 'feel' smaller in my hand.