Choices: X100, X10, X20

SolaresLarrave

SolaresLarrave

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I am torn... because I'd like one of these cameras and don't know which I should plan for.

I like the X100 because it's the closest there is to a fixed-lens RF camera (no zoom), and can be found in the used market for a reasonable price.

I am interested in the X10 as a way to "replace" my Nikon P7000, but I'm not crazy about its zoom (even if it's as fast as it claims).

Then, I'm also tempted by the X20, although I don't know well what the advantages are over the X100 (and the X10).

Let's not mention the X-1 Pro yet.

WWYD? I'll appreciate your help here to make a choice. Thanks!
 
Wait for the X100s and be glad you didn't have to deal with slow-AF bull of the previous gen cameras.
 
I'd wait for the rumoured GRDV with APS-C sized sensor (cuz I prefer 28 over 35mm any day). If it turns out to be a brick then the X100s will have dropped in price by then.
 
jsrockit, Here is your answer:

I'm looking for the closest it can get to a digital Leica or rangefinder.

I don't mind AF but don't consider it that important. I don't care about zooms, and that's why the X-double digit models aren't first on the list. Hence, prime lens, not zoom, and a sensor that renders images in a field of view similar to that of a 35mm lens.

Now... I've been out of the loop for a while, although I do remember the hoopla about the X100. Is there really an X100s coming out soon?
 
yes, the x100s will have the same sensor as the xe1/xp1. it will sell for almost twice as much as a used x100. it is also supposed to have faster AF and a somehow better manual focus capability.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with the present x100 sensor and it yields fabulous images up to iso3200. b&w renders very filmlike. many x100 users like me are more than happy with its AF speed as well. so the only 'draw' of the x100s for x100 users like me (us) may well be the improvement in manual focus experience. for me personally, i couldnt care less, but you and other certainly might feel differently.

the x10/20 are just really a very different experience than the x100. the vf covers 85% of the actual frame. theyre zooms and aperture is changed by a little dial on the camera back, not on the lens like the x100. theyre much smaller than the x100, and thus much smaller than any leica m, so the 'feel' will be much different. the x20 will have focus point/confirmation and exposure info in the vf, neither of which is in the x10. it will also have an updated sensor.
tony
 
SolaresLarrave said:
Is there really an X100s coming out soon?
Click to expand...

Yes, within the next month or two supposedly. It sounds like you want the X100s. It isn't like a Leica in build quality, weight or size, but it does have a dedicated shutter speed dial and aperture ring. The X100s also has something like a digital RF patch for manual focusing.
 
I wonder if the "digital split image" in the X100s can be upgraded in the X100 firmware. That would be sweet. Manual focusing is just completely unusable for me on my X100.
 
Go with an X100. Prices are only dropping and is an absolutely capable camera. They are not a digital rf, however obvious that statement may be. They are great cameras, though they may not be called X100 classic in the future, but you never know.
 
First off, thanks a lot for the information!

Now... I'm not buying right away. In fact, I'd be quite lucky if I manage to buy something by May (we'll be leaving on a trip to Europe late that month). However, I do have my sights in something as similar as a Leica M because the M9 is way out of my reach right now. Also, the Fuji bodies are not looking too bad as an alternate choice, or "the poor man's digital Leica."

In case you guys care, I got interested in these gizmos because of some post here in RFF... It made me scratch my chin and say "Hmmmm... looks like I can leave my D700 home and take one of these and enjoy life just the same..."

Let me add that the X100 is looking prettier by the minute. And the temptation to snatch one from Amazon (where they offer financing for about 12 months) is quite alluring...

Again, thanks a lot! :)
 
yossarian123 said:
I wonder if the "digital split image" in the X100s can be upgraded in the X100 firmware. That would be sweet. Manual focusing is just completely unusable for me on my X100.
Click to expand...

Fuji already have said that they need the new combo phase and contrast detection af that is part of sensor to create the info needed for the digital split image.

Gary
 
i used to own the X100 and it was one nice camera although i ended up selling it because there were some quirks that i couldnt put up with (start up time, shutter lag, AF speed, etc). tbh the AF speed didnt bother me much since i used zone focusing in MF mode.

i now own an X10. its similar to the X100 except the VF sucks and a couple things have been improved slightly. I ended up putting a 35 finder on the hotshoe and treating it as a fixed lens camera (still using zone focusing).

i would honestly save up for the X100s especially if you arent looking to buy at this exact moment.
 
If you want to the closest experience to a Leica M or digital M, then I'd wait for the 100s, or get an RD1.

If you are price conscious though, the X100 is getting really affordable 2nd hand and is a great camera. But the manual focus sucks as much as it could. You buy this cam for auto focus IMHO (even when you are zone focussing or whatever, I would still use the auto focus button to set the distance).

The X10 is a great cam, but so little in common with the Leica M that you can also buy other cams like the RX100.

For your information, I use my X100 almost daily and love it, but sold the XE-1. Just didn't click for me. And I don't even use the optical viewfinder of the X100 90% of the time.

The X100s comes out in within 2 weeks (depending where you live of course), and will be available for a nice 2nd hand price in May I think, including a few firmware upgrades, which I am sure it will need.
I am also hoping that they (adobe/Capture1) will have improved RAW processing by then, but not holding my breath. Having said that, in a way just (solid) JPEG shooting kind of fits the X100 better than the Xpro1, so it's good that that will be improved with the X100s.
 
I have the X100 and the X10 (in addition to a couple of Leica D-lux models). Of the three, the X10 gets the most use, the D-Lux runs a close second, and the X100, a distant third. It's a bit large for a P&S type camera, and whenever I need a focal length other than 35mm, I have to pull out one of the others. The X100 is a fine camera, lacking only the versatility of a zoom lens. Still, 35mm is probably my single most used focal length.
 
I have had an X100 for about a year, but just bought an X-E1 to replace it because a fixed 35mm is a bit too wide for me.

Some thoughts about the X100:

- It looks a bit like a Leica, feels rather like a Leica and handles rather like a Leica. A very comfortable shooter.
- AF speed is pedestrian, even if it has gotten better with the software updates Fuji has made to the camera.
- MF is essentially useless. It is for fine-tuning only.
- I have the camera set in MF mode and use the AF button under the thumb to focus. Shutter lag can be very bad otherwise, as the camera tries to refocus before taking the shot.
- When the camera has fallen asleep, it takes forever to wake up again. I prefer to switch it off if I am not going to take photos for a couple of minutes. Then I switch it on for the next photo, this is a lot faster than waking it up from power-save mode.
- I bought a Thumbs-up like thumb-grip gizmo for it. This makes it more comfortable to hold, and covers the too-easily-disturbed exposure compensation wheel.
- I also bought a little self-adhesive plastic donut to stick on the OK button in the center of the control wheel. Makes all the difference in the world to the usability, actually. The OK button is too small and too shallow otherwise.
- The optical viewfinder with electronic info overlay is brilliant, the electronic viewfinder is only so-so.
- Very good image sensor.

So, it has it quirks but I have been quite happy with it.
 
Thanks again, folks!

BTW, I live in the US, and I am keeping track of the X100s now. Given the information and warnings about the X100, it seems more than likely that I'll wait for the X100s to come up. I'm no big fan of AF in these cameras (in fact, it's fickle in the Nikon P7000) and would like to be able to focus manually, so looks like the newer body will be the thing. I'll keep you posted! :)

Again, thanks a lot for your help!
 
francisco, keep in mind that all three cameras you mentioned were INTENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER to be autofocus cameras! all the bellyaching and countless moaning about their lack of manual focus ability totally misses this single and essential point. manual focus on these cameras is INTENDED as an afterthought.

if manual focus is your primary interest, i strongly suggest the ricoh gxr m mount as a complement to your film M camera and lenses, or the epson rd1 or M8 for 'rangefinder' shooting experience. unlike the fuji X line, the manufacturers INTENDED these cameras to be used in manual focus! an educated consumer is the best guard against disappointment!
tony
 
Tony,

Aghast, must I admit that I just didn't know these cameras were just AF. I saw a brief video of the X10 in which one user focuses it manually and thought they could be manually focused.

In any event, thanks for the information. I'll keep it in mind when (or if) I commit to buying the X100s.
 
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