Choosing between Pixii vs used M10

[blessingx]

As a previous M240 owner, and current X-Pro2 and M9M one, expecting there to be overlap with the Pixii I just ordered on Black Friday. Unlikely to keep all three, so reading with interest the above bodies comments as I wait. Thank you.

 

[JohnGellings]

Unless you want to ship your camera back to France if you need any kind of servicing, I'd stick with the M10.

 

[Freakscene]

Unless you want to ship your camera back to France if you need any kind of servicing, I'd stick with the M10.

Most Leica digitals get sent back to Wetzlar for service anyway, at least from most places. Having Leica USA is a major bonus for American Leica users. The rest of us, well, not so lucky.

 

[boojum]

Unless you want to ship your camera back to France if you need any kind of servicing, I'd stick with the M10.

I understand this being a cause of concern. But the one thing that can go wrong is now user fixable: RF alignment. Other than RF alignment there is not much to fail other than a complete electronic collapse. I have seen no reports of this in the last two years.

Turnaround times on repairs by mail to France are likely at least as good as dealing with Leica. If you are not among the anointed with Leitz you are going to have a long wait as evidenced by tales on this and other boards.

So while I understand your repair concerns they would not give me sleepless nights.

 

[JohnGellings]

Most Leica digitals get sent back to Wetzlar for service anyway, at least from most places. Having Leica USA is a major bonus for American Leica users. The rest of us, well, not so lucky.

True, I lived in the USA and used Leica NJ. Wait time was a problem even 15 years ago. Good point.

 

[Godfrey]

hmm. I've enjoyed excellent service with Leica USA, on the rare times I've needed it, for at least the past 40 years. They've done service on one of my M6 bodies, a couple of R lenses, the Leica X2, and the M10-R ... all good jobs properly performed, and total turnaround in 4-6 weeks which seems to be the industry standard unless you are enrolled in a pro-service program.

That said, I've also sent one or another Hasselblad bit off to Sweden from California for service and received similar high-quality work in similar time. It really doesn't take much to send something around the world these days... 😉

G

 

[JohnGellings]

total turnaround in 4-6 weeks which seems to be the industry standard unless you are enrolled in a pro-service program.

Nikon was a few days, Fuji a week. I am not in any program.

 

[boojum]

Nikon was a few days, Fuji a week. I am not in any program.

This is not an apple and apples deal. Not all repairs are the same. And not all shops are the same.

I have walked into Advance Camera when Jadon was there to get a KMZ J8 CLA'ed and tuned to an M9. Jadon did it while I waited. And he did it right. A few years later I took another different J8 into Advance Camera for a CLA.

I take diuretics and had to pee like a baby water buffalo when I was there and asked to use their bathroom. I had used this bathroom in the past no problem. But this day the troll at the counter gave me an argument about it. I explained that I was either going to have to pee in the john or on the floor, his choice. So he ran and got someone else and I got permission to use their john. To teach me a lesson they took over six months to do the CLA. The same job on the same model lens Jadon did while I waited. They sure showed me.

I'd never patronize them again, of course. I wouldn't even slow down by their store. A shame as it was top-notch for years.

 

[Rayt]

Is shipping to France on the level of pain-in-ass-ness that is shipping to Italy?

 

[boojum]

Is shipping to France on the level of pain-in-ass-ness that is shipping to Italy?

I doubt it. When I send the camera to Pixii they send me a mailing label and customs papers which clearly lay out it is on a round trip for repair/maintenance. I hand it over to UPS in a packed box, they print the label, I give them the money and in a few days it is in France. The return trip is usually DHL and it shows up on my doorstep. It has been pretty painless for me. All I have to do is drive to the UPS store, with money. ;o)

This is my experience.

Added Later: It has been back once for an upgrade from A1571 to A2572. This was the faster, better 64 bit chip with new software. It will go back some time in January for the new rangefinder and viewing eyepiece. A camera bug was fixed on-line by David, the CEO, who hooked up from France. He was cool about it. I think his English is better than mine.

 

[Freakscene]

hmm. I've enjoyed excellent service with Leica USA, on the rare times I've needed it, for at least the past 40 years. They've done service on one of my M6 bodies, a couple of R lenses, the Leica X2, and the M10-R ... all good jobs properly performed, and total turnaround in 4-6 weeks which seems to be the industry standard unless you are enrolled in a pro-service program.

That said, I've also sent one or another Hasselblad bit off to Sweden from California for service and received similar high-quality work in similar time. It really doesn't take much to send something around the world these days... 😉

G

The last time I sent my M10M and four lenses off for cla and calibration I dropped them off in the first few days of October and got them back in the last few days of April the next year. They had been to Wetzlar. I am in the pro service program. So it varies.

 

[Godfrey]

Nikon was a few days, Fuji a week. I am not in any program.

I've been doing photography for sixty years, and have inevitably had to have many pieces of equipment serviced over all this time ... Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus, Leica, Hasselblad, Rollei, Minox, Sony, Panasonic, Linhof ... you name it.

- Some jobs took days or less, others took months.
- The average of all has been four to six weeks.

Leica services have been no exception to either of those two statements, both with Leica USA and with independent Leica repair specialists. I expect the same of Pixii.

G

 

[Freakscene]

I've been doing photography for sixty years, and have inevitably had to have many pieces of equipment serviced over all this time ... Nikon, Canon, Pentax, Olympus, Leica, Hasselblad, Rollei, Minox, Sony, Panasonic, Linhof ... you name it.

- Some jobs took days or less, others took months.
- The average of all has been four to six weeks.

Leica services have been no exception to either of those two statements, both with Leica USA and with independent Leica repair specialists. I expect the same of Pixii.

G

I think you benefit from being in the USA. I have never had anything back from Leica in 6 weeks since they stopped servicing cameras in Australia In the mid-2000s.

Next time I put my cameras in (and they are due soon) I’ll report in this thread how long it takes.

 

[boojum]

I think it is obvious that camera service is poor on average and awful on occasion. With the Pixii it was not going it because it was broken. It was going in for an upgrade, a different story. And when it goes in again, same thing. And it is a scheduled shipping. So it is all different from bringing in a camera or lens to a shop for fixing. In this case the problem is as yet undetermined and the needed parts are unknown. An entirely different deal from what I have had with Pixii. However as the things which can fail on a Pixii are limited I kind of think it would not be the drawn out times which Leitz is famous for.

And regarding Leitz turnaround times I see postings about how dreadfully long it takes if you are not a face on the internet, magazines, books or in some way famous. You know, you are just an ordinary customer. But if it comes up in discussion there are always those who will rush to deny this. And deny it in the face of often posted stories of grief. If I have a Leica problem it goes to Jadon. He is a quick and reliable professional. The prospect of dealing with a Leica dealer does not make me grin. Not if I can believe the posted tales of woe on this board.

In short, I can only tell you it took Advance Camera six months for a J8 CLA. Jadon had done the same job there in less than a half hour. I have had no other repairs done. No, wait, I had a Pentax DSLR fixed at Advance Camera before they changed hands and it took a couple of weeks. And the Pixii was an upgrade not a repair. That's the bottom line.

 

[Godfrey]

Between 2021 and 2022, I had Advance Camera service (restore) three Kodak Retina IIc cameras. In all cases, the quoted turnaround time was 12 weeks; in all cases, they returned them in 10 weeks, and the work was done beautifully ... they are like new, work perfectly! ... and at a fair/reasonable price.

Thus far, I have no complaints with Advance. I have one more Retina (a IIIc with a dead meter and a dented top, it will get a IIc top and eliminate the meter) that is overdue to send in for its overhaul. Perhaps in January. 🙂

My M4-2 needs a shutter service, has needed it for a decade. I'll likely send that to Don Goldberg in the Spring.

My solution to the long wait times of most camera service has simply been to have a couple of backups when I dependent upon the equipment for my living. One piece of equipment goes down: I pull out the backup and send the other in for service. Saves a lot of angst. Even though I'm no longer depending on the cameras for my income, I maintain the same policy for the peace of mind it affords.

G

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Jadon left Advance Cameras and set up his own shop. I would be inclined to use Jadon in his new business.
There are not many places that will work on older cameras anymore, and typically it comes down to the individuals working at those places for the quality of service.
The good shops have no lack of business, and they can have long waits for service. At some point- they become saturated and turn people away rather than have lists that extend for years.

 

[splitimageview]

Most Leica digitals get sent back to Wetzlar for service anyway, at least from most places. Having Leica USA is a major bonus for American Leica users. The rest of us, well, not so lucky.

Not for me, my Q was supposed to take 3 weeks when sent to Leica NJ. They sent it to Germany and it took 8 more months, without any apology, and with one of their major US dealers pushing them the entire time. Without that effort I might still be waiting! 😛

Don't know anything about Pixii service but from this experience I wouldn't recommend leaning towards Leica based on service reputation.

 

[Rayt]

The ultra long wait time for the M9M sensor replacement was why I continued shooting film until the M10M came along. And I can’t go back to a cropped sensor especially when I shoot 21/24 half the time. I’d be stuck with the Voigtlander 15mm for half my stuff.

 

[nbpf]

There is no perfect camera. None have everything one wants.

It is even worse: none can avoid having to deal with things that one does not actually want! Why adding a touch screen to a camera and not even give users the freedom to disable the touch function if that doesn't work for them? This is insane. I would expect Leica M cameras to come with a small, minimalistic, perhaps eink b&w screen for managing the camera's settings. One could then add a fancy, overpriced screen for live view or picture review in much the same way as one adds an evf. Or use a smartphone or a tablet computer instead. A bit more customizability would not give everybody what they want. But it would avoid a lot of frustration. From this angle, I think that pixii is on the right path. Too bad that I have given up photography years ago. I still have a couple of M lenses though, perhaps I should get a pixii and start shooting again ...

 

[boojum]

It is even worse: none can avoid having to deal with things that one does not actually want! Why adding a touch screen to a camera and not even give users the freedom to disable the touch function if that doesn't work for them? This is insane. I would expect Leica M cameras to come with a small, minimalistic, perhaps eink b&w screen for managing the camera's settings. One could then add a fancy, overpriced screen for live view or picture review in much the same way as one adds an evf. Or use a smartphone or a tablet computer instead. A bit more customizability would not give everybody what they want. But it would avoid a lot of frustration. From this angle, I think that pixii is on the right path. Too bad that I have given up photography years ago. I still have a couple of M lenses though, perhaps I should get a pixii and start shooting again ...

OK, I am biased as an unabashed Francophile, a fan of the different and new (if it works), and own a Pixii and have since they came out with the A1571. It is fun. It takes good pictures. I am in the developer's channel so sometimes the firmware/software is not quite ready for prime time. On balance it is a good camera. Try the Pixii group on FB for info and support and the Pixii group on Flickr for examples of what the images can look like.

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