Choosing the right gear?

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I am taking the plunge and buying a rangefinder to

replace my Canon G-III. I have a full compliment of

Canon SLR equipment.

I am trying to decide if I should go with the

Voigtlander R2a with the .7 viewfinder and Ultron

35mm 1.7 as my walk around lens or the R3a with the 1

to 1 ratio viewfinder and Nokton 40mm 1.4

My concern is probably more about getting the right

lens that will live on the body. I am not sure if I

should be more concerned with the improved (brighter

larger magnification) viewfinder on the R3a VS. R2a.

Is there really a huge difference in coverage on a

40mm versus a 35mm lens?

Can anyone comment on the differences in performance,

usability, bokeh, size and weight, etc. between these

two lenses?

Would it be a mistake to select the outfit based on

the viewfinder rather then then lens?

Are these camera bodies/lenses bayonet mount or screw

mount?

Any suggestions in selecting the "right" set up would

be appreciated!
 
this seems to have gotten lost.

many questions...

have you looked through the viewfinder of either of these cameras.
a 1:1 viewfinder is great, at least i like it, but many could care less.
you need to 'see' for yourself.
i don't think there is a difference in brightness only magnification.

the diff btn 35 and 40 is really not all that much, but there is likely a diff in character for each lens. that new 40 is getting mixed reviews as are both of the camera bodies.

sorry i can't help much more than that.

joe
 
Joe has a point about the mixed reviews on the 40. On the other side of the table, the 35 Ultron is one of the best CV lenses, simply excellent. If you are intending on most of your shooting being with a 50mm lens or less I would recommend the R2a over the R3a.
 
I would say that if the 40mm is comparable to the 35mm lens then the larger and possibly brighter viewfinder would be to my advantage no? I think I would prefer having the better lens however. I was told not to believe everything you read by Steve Gandy and he said he would select the R3a and 40mm combo since he seemed to think the lenses were equally matched and he said he would prefer to have the 1 to 1 ratio viewfinder on the R3a.

What to do...oh what to do?
 
the viewfinders are of equal brightness. i would use the r3a for 35mm lenses, even if i wore glasses, which i do.

if you shoot tri-x souped in diafine, i'd get the pancake ii instead of either of those lenses because it's really compact and will still be handholdable in house interiors at night. i'd only get the nokton if you prefer shooting iso 200 in the dark, the ultron if you use 400.
 
Hmm...too many choices! So you like the Voigtlander Wide Angle Color-Skopar Pan 35mm f/2.5-M (PII) ? Is the lens that much more compact?

I shoot everything from Tmax 3200 to AGFA APX 100 to Tri-X but I usually set the ISO's at 1600, 80 and 250 respectively. I shoot mostly Tri-X.

I like having a fast lens especially since most of my SLR lenses are slower zooms. I do however have one fast SLR prime lens....a Canon 50mm 1.8 and I like the bokeh and ability to shoot in low light.

You would still shoot the 35mm Ultron lens on the R3a even though the framelines on that camera are set for 40,50,75, and 90mm? I thought I read that the 35mm Ultron was the best lens they make?

I would try out the viewfinder in person but I am up here in Maine. I will be going to New York in April so that may be the time to take a ride to B & H if they have both bodies in stock.
 
From what I've seen the 35 Ultron has a more pleasant character than the 40 Nokton. On the other hand, everything else about the Nokton seems superior... size, speed, modest cost.

The body choice is another matter. I think the 1:1 viewfinder is only a good choice for 50mm and longer lenses, as the 40mm framelines take up almost the whole window, making them hard to use, and I guess virtually impossible for glasses-wearers. IMHO, the Bessa R2a is more versatile.

The Bessa L and Bessa R were screw mount, now discontinued. The Bessa-T, R2, R2a, and R3a are all bayonet mount. Most of the lenses are screw mount, the only bayonet lenses being the 35 Nokton, 40 Nokton, and new 35 Pancake II.

You saw that I'm positive on the 35 Ultron for the look of the pics it produces, and positive on the R2a, and fortunately these two go together like love and marriage! :D
 
I have heard several people say the .7 viewfinder on the R2a is better suited for the wider angle lenses and the framelines are difficult to see on the R3a. I am leaning in the direction of the R2a. Maybe I should just ask what is everyones favorite lens in the 35-40mm range and buy the R2a with the lens that rates best! Is there no consensus on what lens is considered the best of the 35 and 40mm's?
 
If you already have a Cononet G III, why are you buying a new body/lens combo? Which G III do you have? Have you used it enough to decide where the limitations of the lens is for your shooting needs & what you want to replace it with? Why buy a new camera with a 40mm lens to replace a similar one with a 40 or 45 mm lens? Have you tried using your SLR with just the 50/1.8 to see in what way you feel limited - if any? Have you tried playing with your zoom to "see" the difference between the 35 & 40 angles of view. Although 40 is a little closer to 35 than to 50, it is about half way between the two.

You mention an "improved (brighter, larger magnification) viewfinder." The new R3A viewfinder is not brighter - just a higher magnification, which is only an improvement if it more effectively meets your needs.

The 40 Nokton has a closer minimum focus distance by about 9 inches (27 inches vs 3 feet) as compared with the 35 Ultron. Does your shooting style invove getting close to your subject? One portrait photographer who reviewed the 40 loves it for his purposes. It is also more compact than the 35 Ultron. The 40 Nokton is new enough to the market that its reputation is still emerging, while the 35 Ultron is widely regarded as an excellent lens. Although opinions about the 40 Nokton may differ, most people who actually own this lens seem to like it a lot (vs. folks who've viewed pictures taken by others). You can find opinions & comnparisions by users on www.photo.net

The 40mm field of view (56 degrees) has been described as what you see with 2 eyes. The 35mm field of view (63 degrees) takes in more than you normally take in with both eyes. How much do you want to include in your photos?

How do you intend to use this new equipment? Ultra-fast lenses, used at their widest aperture, have shallow depth of field. This is useful for portrait type shooting? Is this what you want? Do you have a different intended use for the camera? If so, do you need a lens as fast as these two? If you want the wider aperture for low light shooting, faster film with a slower lens will also achieve this without the reduced depth of field. A lens in the f/2 - f/2.8 range is still a lot faster than most consumer grade zooms.

Are you planning to get any more lenses? If so, what focal length(s)? What lenses do you favor with your SLR equipment?

Can I assume, Big Dog, that you are the original poster of this question?
 
i wouldn't say the r2a is more versatile than the r3a. you use an external viewfinder for anything wider than, or including, 28mm, so why not make focusing as easy as possible? with average glasses on, i can see most of the 40mm framelines on the r3a.
 
Hi Huck....yes I am the original poster... "If you already have a Cononet G III, why are you buying a new body/lens combo?"

I have the Canonet with the 40mm 1.7 lens QL G-III and the camera is probably 30 years old. I paid $60 on Ebay. I replaced the light seals but on occasion the door pops open and exposes the film. Also at times I have found I can advance the film more then one frame between shots because the advance lever doesn't always stop when it should. I end up with blank frames on the negative. When the camera works, I am amazed at how good the shots are.

I will probably use the camera indoors at times to take shots of my 2 year old and I also like the shallow depth of field for portrait shots. So I guess in that respect the 40mm focal length at closer distances could work for at least head and upper body type shots. It will probably have to get a 75mm at some future date.

I guess I really want a compact versatile camera like a point and shoot but I want more control. I find that when I bring my SLR, I end up with too much gear. Limiting myself to a rangefinder and a single lens seems to give me a sense of freedom and it does change the way I shoot.

This is probably one of those questions that only I can answer but it is helpful hearing all of the opinions.

I do like hearing opinions on peoples favorite lenses in the 35-40mm range. I think these focal lengths would be the most versatile if I decide to limit myself to carrying a single lens. If the bag starts to get to heavy then I might as well just bring my SLR gear.
 
Big Dog, sorry to hear that the Canonet is not in better working order . I also have a Canonet QL17 GIII, of which I am the original owner. After 25 years, I had it CLA'd & it works like new again. Stephen Gandy at www.camerquest.com will do the job on a Canonet for $100, which should address all of the problems you mentioned. Look for details under Camera Repairs. It's a nice camera & you can do a lot with it.

I also like a rangefinder to cut down on the bulk of an SLR kit, which is why I shy away from the bigger RF lenses. A rangefinder kit with 2 or 3 lenses can be carried much more easily than the same combination of SlR lenses. But sometimes only a bigger lens will do the job. The 40 Nokton is very unusual in being both ultra-fast & compact.

I really like the CV 75/2.5 & agree that it is excellent for portrait shots. It's reasonably compact for this type of lens, reasonably fast, & its focal length will reduce depth of field without having to use wider apertures.

You ask about people's favorite 35 & 40 mm lenses. There are only a few 40mm lenses from which to choose. In addition to the Nokton, you can consider the supeb Leica 40/2 Summicron-C, which was also made as a Minolta 40/2 Rokkor. both are from the 1970s & often available on ebay or from dealers in the $300 +/- range. I have the newer Rollei 40/2.8 Sonnar, which I like a lot. All of the 40 mm lenses have received extensive discussion on photo.net with pictures & comparisons with 35's. Just look through the list of topics under Leica lenses. Taking the same pictures with your Canonet & with a 35 on your SLR is probably the best way to see which field of view you prefer - or if the difference really matters at all to you.

There are so many 35's available that it is almost impossible to inventory them on this kind of forum. Owners of both the CV 1.7 & 2.5 sing their praises, so it would seem that you can't go wrong with either. The choice is size vs speed. The CV 35/2.5 Classic is compact. The 35/2.5 Pancake II is very compact! But it loses some of its size advantage if you use a shade. Optically both of these 2.5 versions are essentially the same. There are multiple versions of Leica 35's at varying speeds & prices. The best reference on their different optical qualities is the "Leica Lens Compendium" by Erwin Puts, available from amazon.com for $35. Puts reviews Leica lenses & some Konica & CV lenses on his website at www.imx.nl/ The latest Leica lenses are aspherical & very sharp. Older versions are preferred by some for their rendering of out-of-focus background (bokeh). However, even older Leica lenses are more expensive than new CV lenses, so it's hard to justify the cost for many amateurs.

In deciding between 35 vs 40 or R2A vs R3A, I would not get distracted by the differences. 35/50/90 are the classic - if somewhat arbitary - rangefinder focal lengths. The Bessa R, R2, & R2A all offer these frame lines plus 75.

The reason that Cosina offers the R3A with 40mm frame lines is somewhat serendipitous. Cosina teamed with Epson 2 years ago to develop a digital rangefinder, which came to market in 2004. For a variety of reasons, the development of this camera resulted in a viewfinder with 1:1 magnification on the same body as the R2. Never slow to see a marketing opportunity, Cosina installed this viewfinder on its R2, but the widest frame lines that could fit with the higher magnification were those for 40 mm. The result was the R3A.

This is the only reason that the 40/1.4 Nokton exists. There was no great demand for the 40mm focal length. Now that it's available, some people are finding that they like it. To make it different from other lenses in their line-up & to make it attractive in its own way, Cosina chose a lens design that makes it unusually compact - a design in some ways similar to Leica's older & also compact 35/1.4 Summilux.

The development of the R3A provided a real service for CV customers. The shorter Bessa base line - about half the length of a Leica-M base line - is a less precise focusing instrument. This doesn't make much practical difference for lenses wider than 50mm because these lenses have such great depth of field to begin with, but it is a factor with ultra-fast 50's & for any telephoto lens. The R3A now offers an alternative for users of these lenses in much the same way that Leica offers alternative magnifications for those who favor wide lenses vs. those who favor telephotos.

The 40 Nokton came as part of the R3A package & it also offers an alternative for the CV user - a very compact & very fast moderate wide angle lens. The CV 35 Ultron & 28 Ultron are excellent wide angle lenses but they are bulkier than their slower focal length alternatives. The 40 Nokton offers both speed & compact size. Some don't like the look of its pictures - although I think that the number of sample photos are too small to judge from internet scans. Some feel too cramped by the focal length, so this is not the lens for them. But for those who don't want to carry botha 35 & a 50 and who want speed, this does seem to be the lens for them. And it has quickly developed its fan base, who swear by the "look" they get in their photos. I happen to like the pictures I've seen taken with it & it's surprisingly flare resistant - unlike the old 35 Summilux.To each his own.

Best of luck choosing. :)

Huck
 
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Big, I was in a similar quandary a while ago. Like you, I''ve got the SLR background. And I've got a couple of fixed lens RFs, one is a Canonet GIII QL 17 that I've had awhile and really enjoy. After some soul and wallet searching and selling a few items, I decided to get a bit more serious and bought an R2A and the 1.7/35 Ultron. My idea is to have an RF kit (probably just the Ultron and the Color Heliar) to take everywhere and devote my SLR stuff more and more just to kids sports shooting and other uses for which they're better suited.

And btw thanks to the many RFFers who were kind enough to provide advice while I fumbled around trying to make a decision.

After running several rolls of film through it, I'm doing a lot of grinning looking over the prints and negs. (I'd share them right now but that's the subject of another thread I just posted.) The Ultron is sharp and smooth with a very nice people character to it. It focuses and handles very well for me on the R2A. It's love at first sight, no doubt.

I don't believe I'd be as happy with the R3A mounting a 35mm. Haven't used it but some users say even the 40mm lines on the R3A are tight and sometimes difficult to see. That risk isn't for me. And I would not like having to use the edge of the viewfinder to approximate 35mm framelines on a regular basis, either. Too tight. I like having the subject outside the framelines when I'm shooting. Clearer composition decision, one of the benefits for me of the RFF style in the first place. But all of this is just my blathering. You probably need to put both cameras up to see what you like, based on your comments and uncertainty. Anyway you could manage that?

Good luck!
 
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