Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
The C of E has voted no to Women Bishops.
Can the church continue to argue that it has a place in a modern world, if it continues to discriminate against women.
(I ask as a non-religious observer).
Can the church continue to argue that it has a place in a modern world, if it continues to discriminate against women.
(I ask as a non-religious observer).
Roger Hicks
Veteran
A puzzle indeed. As I said to Frances, when can we expect Shi'ite Anglican car bombs outside Sunni Anglican churches? (Or, of course, vice versa.)
Basically, as with all religions, you have to accept the premises before you accept the arguments. On this one, I fall at the first hurdle.
Cheers,
R.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
Can any religion claim to have a place in modern society, irrespective? I have no time for any of them as they are, in my opinion, simply a means of controlling the masses through "smoke and mirrors", guilt and dogma.
Beemermark
Veteran
Curious if you do not belong to the Church why do you even care?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Because religious lunatics claim, on a regular basis, to speak not only for the sane members of their own limited congregations, but for humanity as a whole.
Cheers,
R.
Beemermark
Veteran
Funny, as a lunatic, I would never waste my time claiming anything for humanity.
I certainly would no try to impose my views on someone else. Such as telling the Church of England, or any other group on how to run there business.
Since this forum is delving off into religion, politics, business ethics and name calling I'm really starting to lose interest in the forum.
I certainly would no try to impose my views on someone else. Such as telling the Church of England, or any other group on how to run there business.
Since this forum is delving off into religion, politics, business ethics and name calling I'm really starting to lose interest in the forum.
funkydog
Well-known
Will a C of E decision either way - to have women bishops or not - fill the pews?
For those who have a free choice of religions to believe in, will they be more attracted to religion if it was less uptight about alternative lifestyles, women bishops, contraception, etc etc?
For those who have a free choice of religions to believe in, will they be more attracted to religion if it was less uptight about alternative lifestyles, women bishops, contraception, etc etc?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Why do you call yourself a lunatic? Surely it is possible to be religious and sane, or a lunatic and irreligious.
From all the evidence, the only thing that stopped the CofE agreeing to women bishops was the blocking tactics of a minority who, thanks to the voting rules, were able to thwart the majority.
As for religion, politics and business ethics, many of us are more interested in a forum that does not consist solely of discussions of often arcane and sometimes worthless technical points. It's all very well to say 'go to a political' forum or 'go to a religious forum', but the great advantage of RFF is that it is NOT self-selecting for religious or political views, so you are likely to get a reasonable cross-section of views from people whose obsession -- defined as 'something they'll join a forum to talk about' -- is photography, not religion or politics.
From all I have seen (and my experience is admittedly limited) political and religious sites seem to be extremely self-limiting. There are sites patronized by members of various political parties, or by devotees of particular religions, and their sole purpose seems to be cozy self-congratulation, or arguing about the minutest points of doctrine (such as whether a Version 3 or Version 4 lens is better). The chance of a meaningful discussion with someone holding different political or religious views is negligible.
Cheers,
R.
ronnies
Well-known
Sexual discrimination is illegal in the UK. I'm not sure why the C of E should be given an exemption (they have been apparently) from the law.
Ronnie
Ronnie
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
Beemermark,
It is not my intention to alienate members with this thread.
Despite being of no religious persuasion (except possibly the Alien theory
), I still care for the Church and respect it's opinions, it's followers and it's continuing ability to survive in society.As Roger says, it is refreshing to be able to discuss topics other than the size of one's accessory, with intelligent people.
Please don't do anything rash.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I wondered whether there would be an employment law or even human rights angle used on this one. If any female who works for a business was told, quite openly and oficially, that she could achieve staus "x" but that she could never be considered for promotion beyond that point, she'd have a very good chance of winning a case against them for discrimination. Similarly with human rights if they were allocated / prioritised according to gender.
What I will never uderstand is why any logical person would take the uncorroborated, partisan and largely anecdotal / hand-me-down scriptures (of any religion) as absolute fact. History books, even about recent history and where there is photographic and other empirical evidence, are questioned and re-interpreted regularly. Why is "the Bible" any different?
What I will never uderstand is why any logical person would take the uncorroborated, partisan and largely anecdotal / hand-me-down scriptures (of any religion) as absolute fact. History books, even about recent history and where there is photographic and other empirical evidence, are questioned and re-interpreted regularly. Why is "the Bible" any different?
funkydog
Well-known
Gender discrimination - if God is held above the laws of man then most likely the God business is also above the same laws?
Anecdotal tales - the best part of it is that you live in a culture that has evolved over the centuries to permit free personal choice of beliefs and the freedom to question without repercussions, the foundations of such beliefs.
Anecdotal tales - the best part of it is that you live in a culture that has evolved over the centuries to permit free personal choice of beliefs and the freedom to question without repercussions, the foundations of such beliefs.
ronnies
Well-known
So are you saying that ALL religious activity (no matter what religion) is above the law?
Ronnie
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Ronnie,
It's a classic slippery slope argument. Banning human sacrifice was the thin end of the wedge...
Cheers,
R.
David Murphy
Veteran
Well my mother once told me never to talk about religion or politics in social settings, but here we go! ...
I am not particularly religious, but I live with and work among many believers, and I find one aspect of religion very interesting and I think a key to those outsiders (who may not be particularly faithful) in understanding it.
Religious beliefs often require the acceptance of concepts or facts that are hard, if not impossible, to prove in any sort of scientific sense. Religious belief systems also frequently require the voluntary acceptance of hardships, dietary sacrifices, social inequities, requirements to provide money or service, requirements to undergo serious and dedicated learning of formal teachings, even entire codes of conduct, or other apparent (to the outsider at least) hardships. To the non-believer these are sometimes viewed, in the context of society at large, as unfair, antiquated, perhaps unjust, maybe illogical, or simply boring. To the faithful however, undergoing such rituals and obeying such edicts is a communal bonding process, known sometimes as "faith" or "fellowship", etc. It builds and strengthens spiritual bonds.
I think such bonds obtained through shared sacrifice in some fashion is actually an innate need in the human character and hardwired into the human brain at some level. It will always be with us, like it or not, participant or not.
I am not particularly religious, but I live with and work among many believers, and I find one aspect of religion very interesting and I think a key to those outsiders (who may not be particularly faithful) in understanding it.
Religious beliefs often require the acceptance of concepts or facts that are hard, if not impossible, to prove in any sort of scientific sense. Religious belief systems also frequently require the voluntary acceptance of hardships, dietary sacrifices, social inequities, requirements to provide money or service, requirements to undergo serious and dedicated learning of formal teachings, even entire codes of conduct, or other apparent (to the outsider at least) hardships. To the non-believer these are sometimes viewed, in the context of society at large, as unfair, antiquated, perhaps unjust, maybe illogical, or simply boring. To the faithful however, undergoing such rituals and obeying such edicts is a communal bonding process, known sometimes as "faith" or "fellowship", etc. It builds and strengthens spiritual bonds.
I think such bonds obtained through shared sacrifice in some fashion is actually an innate need in the human character and hardwired into the human brain at some level. It will always be with us, like it or not, participant or not.