CL update: i think i have a dead meter

-kk-

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sigh..... what a bummer. what i thought was a good deal is turning out to be a nightmare of a buy.

i bought a 1.5v alkaline from the shop, just to see if i get any signs of life from the meter before paying mucho dinero on adapters or zinc cells etc.... and i dont see any difference in the viewfinder with and without the battery.

granted, im putting a 1.5v in a 1.35v, but id still expect some reading. none, nada.

played with shutter speeds, iso, apertures... nothing. no blinky lights or anything 🙁

the needle actually moves... even when there is no batt. from the top right hand side, down through to the middle of the right bar where it shows a red mark. thing is, it shows this mark only on speeds of 8 and slower - for ALL ISO and aperture, with or without battery.

did i get a lemon?
 
Just to make sure all bases are covered - you do know you need to move the winder out away from the body to turn the meter on...right ?

Dead meters are pretty common on this camera and Sherry Krauter "Golden Touch," can repair for about $ 160.

Good luck

Dan
 
PS - this site has a great write up on buying a CL....
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/page21.html


"Leica CL

Points worth checking before purchase

The CL compact rangefinder camera from Leitz is different from every other camera in many respects and has nothing in common with the Minolta CLE apart from the M bayonet flange. It was designed in Wetzlar , Germany and produced in Japan from 1973 to 1976. Most bear the legend Leitz Wetzlar on the top-plate , a small number have Leitz-Minolta CL engraved on the camera. The coupled rangefinder has masks for (bright-line) 40 , 50 & 90mm lenses. Serial numbers start from 1300001 to 1440000 . There are a number of points worth checking before purchasing a used camera . Firstly , external condition obviously gives a clue to the previous owners treatment of the camera , one that has dents in the top-plate and 'white' metal showing , where the anodising has worn away has had a bit of use but may be perfectly OK mechanically. The metering utilizes a pivoted meter movement that rotates when the speed dial or ASA/DIN is altered , a camera that has had a knock may have the operating rods distorted , or the meter assembly , adrift from the pivots . This can be checked by fitting a lens and battery to the camera , winding on ( to restore the semaphore arm with meter CDS cell) and setting the film speed to 100ASA and 1/30 second . Press the battery check button and watch the meter needle deflect downwards to about 8 o'clock . Release the battery check and move the wind-lever to it's stand-off position (to switch meter on) , rotate the speed dial back to 1/2 second and point the camera toward a low-level light source that just moves the needle from it's rest position . Then check that , each time the shutter speed is incremented , the meter needle moves in a downward fashion with each turn of the dial ( it will be necessary to increase the amount of light falling on the lens (CDS cell) either by utilizing the lens aperture or pointing the camera to a brighter source as the higher shutter speeds are reached . This check only tests if the mechanical meter linkages are working correctly and does not indicate that the meter is accurate . In some instances the meter may not work at all , and the problem may be , simply , that the galvanometer coil is sticking , or more seriously , that the coil is open circuit ( quite rare ) . Other meter problems can be associated with the photocell or the ceramic circuit board . These latter faults , can normally be repaired quite inexpensively (see price guide) . The shutter can be checked by removing the lens and winding-on ; press the release button( with back-plate removed) while observing the film plane aperture whilst holding toward a bright light . The shutter moves from 'top to bottom' and at 1/1000 second the whole image area should be ' scanned ' without any 'cut-off' . If only half or a portion of the exposure is light then a service is necessary. Some cameras have been know to sieze-up completely through lack of lubrication , making it impossible to obtain an exposure at any shutter speed , due to both shutter curtains crossing the image plane together , without a delay between the first and second blind . This can happen at any time , and a camera that has not been serviced can work correctly until you get it home , then the main shutter gears sieze , leaving you with a non-working camera .Another point to check is the take-up spool . Early cameras did not have the brass bush which is fitted to later spools , and these earlier spools tend to break. The white bottom part splits from the main black body and then the tangs break off. Nearly all early CL's will need a new spool if it hasn't already been fitted. The Viewfinder is held in by epoxy resin , so check that this is not loose . It will fall out and get lost if the epoxy has cracked

Checking the rangefinder( see picture at top of page )

One of the main problems with the rangefinder is that the second image , on some cameras , may be very 'dim' or totally non-existant . This is due to the vapour deposited aluminum layer which the prism is coated with , deteriorating , to such an extent that the relfective properties are no longer there . Normally a Leitz/Leica agency would have to fit a complete , new rangefinder assembly , but we can remove and 're-silver ' the prism at a fraction of the cost and restore the image brightness to it's original condition . To check the rangefinder prism , hold the camera towards you , with the words LEICA CL visible and point the eyepiece lens towards a bright light while observing the small ( 3mm x 5mm) window , just to the right of ' CL' ( you may have to look slightly to the left of centre ) the back of the prism can be seen . Light entering the eyepiece should be reflected through the prism and it's condition checked . A patch of light with black dots , or a largish black area indicate that the silvering has 'gone' . The apex of the prism can be seen , clearly as a very fine line , running left/right across the centre of one in good order. Obviously check the vertical and horizontal accuracy of the secondary image , minor deviations can be corrected quite easily , a seriously defective rangefinder may have been interferred with to such an extent that repairs may be more involved and costly .

Metering

Normal methods to check the meter can be used , the main problems are as in the first paragraph but as the meter uses a single , Cadmium-Sulphide photocell and the camera could be 20 - 25 years old , there is a good chance that this CDS cell is in need of replacement . After about 12 years the chemical composition of the cell deteriorates and it's sensitivity decreases. A certain amount can be compensated for by adjustment of trimmer resistors but to restore the meter sensitvity a new cell should be fitted ( SEE Price guide ).

Brief specification

Vertical running cloth-blind shutter 1/2 to 1/1000 and 'B' . Coupled rangefinder . Film speed range 25 ASA to 1600 ASA. Weight , under 400g ( body only) . One piece removeable back/base-plate .M type bayonet mount . Three bright-line frames 40 , 50 , 90 mm . Shutter speed indicated in viewfinder . Battery test button . CDS meter cell on swing arm , powered by PX625 battery. Meter switched on by wind-lever . Hot-shoe flash connection (only) .Two lugs at LHD side of body for carry strap . Black-anodized aluminium top-plate and die-cast alloy shell . Will accept most M lenses apart from 21mm Super Angulon and 28mm lenses below serial 2314920.

Email : luton.leica@virgin.net"
 
Meleica said:
Just to make sure all bases are covered - you do know you need to move the winder out away from the body to turn the meter on...right ?

yup, am aware of that, no sign of life unfortunately.
 
Sorry to hear of your troubles, Kelvin. I assume you're aware that Sherry Krauter can work wonders with the CL. Mine had a bad meter which she fixed up as good as new. Now it feels like a new camera and the wonderful spot meter of the CL is fully operational once again. Not cheap, mind you, but still an awfully nice, very pocketable/portable M-mount camera that can still run fully manual should I ever need it to. Guess all those reasons and more were the reason i spent so much having Sherry repair mine. Good luck sorting yours out.

-Randy
 
Try pushing the battery test button a few thousand times, it's often intermittent, but is self-cleaning. It's good news that the needle moves when the shutter control is moved, that means the meter coil/magnet assy may still be in it's bearing.. a good thing- it's not too hard to put it back in the cradle bearing, but it can be frustrating, and the top must come off for that.
That red flag thing you see under 1/8 I believe means that you are out of meter range..
The battery wires sometimes corrode off of the battery holder, it's not hard to figure out how to get to the holder terminals to inspect. Just take out screws until you get there. Sometimes the wire can get corroded inside of the plastic insulation, and it gets impossible to tin with new solder. I just replace the whole wire in that case, but it's a little bit of a chore to get to the wire from the circuit board back to the battery clip. Unless you know how to solder I'd be careful trying to re-attach the wires- the heat from the iron can damage the holder plastic..
Despite the slamming that meter gets opinion-wise from the 'it's not a real leica' set, it's really not complicated, the circuit is all passive with a bulletproof ceramic board with gold traces. Having to replace the cds cell every fourty years isn't really that big of a thing- it's right there waving around on a stick with just two wires to deal with.
 
ok some more fiddling brought up some wierd/interesting signs. when i press the batt check button, the needle swings into place... once i let it go, needle goes back to being dead.

actually now i wonder about the battery that i got. will go to a diff store tomorow, pop a diff battery in there to see if things change. better to test this on cheap alkalines than on the weincells!

not the best prognosis, but gives me a glimmer of hope.

*fingers crossed*
 
Sounds promising, Kelvin. We'll keep our fingers crossed for you!

-Randy

P.S. And I agree with what clintock says above. The CL meter is actually quite nice and easily repaired, as is the camera itself. Certainly more so than the more electronically complicated CLE.
 
OK, I did a quickie meter calibration on my CL with an Exell S625PX silver oxide battery. I didn't have much time since we had to head out the door for a party, but I got it reasonably close. It seems that my particular meter has a flaky potentiometer ("R5" in the instructions I linked to elsewhere: it has a dead spot, apparently), so I had a little trouble getting it dialed in. The procedure is quite easy, but it's a pain to hold the camera without the bottom/back on. I used my home theater projector as a light source, seemed to work well as long as I kept the meter's semi-spot pattern in mind.

I shot a test roll of 99-cent Fuji C-41 and should have some results tomorrow. It's kind of strange to have a meter in the camera after going without for a couple of months.
 
ok more update. new battery in and the meter DOES respond.... sometimes.

its a pretty strange beast, cant really figure this one out. what is clear so far is that mechanically, nothing's wrong. as far as electronics goes, its a bit hit-or-miss. im right now compensating for the diff batt voltage by plugging in a diff ASA reading. i may try a roll just to see how it turns out. what seems really strange is that sometimes the needle is pretty sensitive , and sometimes it does respond at all (until you click the shutter a few times).

will try to recalibrate the meter when i get a chance, but will probably put a roll through it first.

I really like the CL for its size/compactness and the 40 summicron. if the meter keeps playing up, may just invest in a VC II external meter or something similar.

John, looking forward to seeing your results.
 
Get the right battery

Get the right battery

-kk- said:
ok more update. new battery in and the meter DOES respond.... sometimes.

its a pretty strange beast, cant really figure this one out. what is clear so far is that mechanically, nothing's wrong. as far as electronics goes, its a bit hit-or-miss. im right now compensating for the diff batt voltage by plugging in a diff ASA reading. i may try a roll just to see how it turns out. what seems really strange is that sometimes the needle is pretty sensitive , and sometimes it does respond at all (until you click the shutter a few times).

will try to recalibrate the meter when i get a chance, but will probably put a roll through it first.

I really like the CL for its size/compactness and the 40 summicron. if the meter keeps playing up, may just invest in a VC II external meter or something similar.

John, looking forward to seeing your results.

Go ahead and get the Wein cell battery. That's the only way to know if the meter is working properly. The 1.5v alkalines give readings all over the place depending on the brightness of the light. I forget which way they make the meter go, but bright light will give a different reading from low light. Both will be wrong & in opposite directions. The Wein cells aren't expensive & you'll need one even if you send the camera to Sherry.

Good luck! If the CL meter is as good as it's big brother's meter, it's a keeper!
 
Further note on the Weins. I've had good luck with them, including good battery life, and they consistently test at 1.35v. I've tried to recycle the adapter rings with hearing aid batteries, which do not give the same good results, typically testing at 1.45 or more volts, which throws meter readings off in most cameras.
 
If the meter needle gets stuck at one of the extreme positions, it may just be the classic CL meter foam problem. There is (was) a little pad of foam on each of the two metal stops. The foam is there i presume to prevent shock to the meter jewel when the indicator needle goes to rest or to full travel. In any case, it gets old an turns into a fly-paper like adhesive, causing the needle to get stuck on either end until you do something to overcome the sticky, like change the shutter speed for example, or strike the camera base against your hand gently.

The decayed foam bits can fall off and get into the hair spring or between the moving coil and the stator, making the meter act odd.. Lucky the pads were only tiny, so it's not much material to remove- about one by two milllimeters for each of the two pads. Just realize that canned compressed air can be too much for the delicate meter movement if you're not careful with it.
I now don't have any foam in any of my CL, just the metal tabs where the foam used to be to limit the travel of the needle work perfectly.
 
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Better yet, have her recalibrate the meter for 1.5v cells (and use the silver oxide, not alkaline 625-size cells). I have a CL that Sherry cleaned and recalibrated and the meter is dead-on.

venchka said:
If you do pack the camera off to Sherry, ask her if she has any of the correct batteries.
 
Bill58 said:
Is the CLE meter just as problematic as the one in the CL? Can it be repaired by Sherry too? Same cost?
Hi Bill -- The CLE is a totally different camera from the CL, new design. Meter cell is on the floor of the chamber and reads off the shutter curtains (and the film itself for long exposures and flash). No moving meter stalk, and it takes common SR44 silver batteries.

CLE has its own little quirk, though, as over time dirt firnds its way under the shutter speed dial where there's a ring of electrical contacts to transfer the dial position to the meter circuits... so these contacts need to be cleaned periodically, like every 10 years or so. Fortunately, it's easy for the tech to get to. 🙂
 
DIY ethic pays off

DIY ethic pays off

Kelvin, unless your meter actually has problems, you should be able to get the results I did in about 20-30 minutes. Sample pic attached to demonstrate exposure (NOT photographic expertise 🙂 ). Film was $.99/12-exp C-41 Fuji, scanned on the Noritsu at my local CVS drug store.

I'm willing to bet Sherry Krauter would do a better job, but we're leaving on a trip in a few days, and this is my travel kit body.
 

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