CL x Hologon 16
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tomtodeath
Established
that is ultimate.
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
so, how much do these Contax G -> Leica M lensmount conversions cost?
And how much does a G Hologon go for?
wow.
And how much does a G Hologon go for?
wow.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Heh. I just can't even begin to "see" that on too many levels...
For me and the way I see the world, the Canon 28/3.5 LTM that I use on my CL is a "super wide" even though I can use the whole of the VF for a very good approximation. Which leads me to problem 2 - an external VF is just anathema to the compact nature of the CL. That lens makes it terribly small front to back but the top to bottom increase overwhelms that, IMHO and all of that. Plus the sheer expense of that converted 16 as opposed to, say, a VC 15 or a Canon 19?
More power to the one behind the camera - he's got a fun toy there & I'll bet the images are even more fun. I just can't see my priorities taking me there. But I really am glad that there are people out there who do that. Makes me feel better when I get long lens happy on my CL 😉 (since that Canon 135/3.5 & it's external VF is an even _worse_ fit on it... 😱 )
William
For me and the way I see the world, the Canon 28/3.5 LTM that I use on my CL is a "super wide" even though I can use the whole of the VF for a very good approximation. Which leads me to problem 2 - an external VF is just anathema to the compact nature of the CL. That lens makes it terribly small front to back but the top to bottom increase overwhelms that, IMHO and all of that. Plus the sheer expense of that converted 16 as opposed to, say, a VC 15 or a Canon 19?
More power to the one behind the camera - he's got a fun toy there & I'll bet the images are even more fun. I just can't see my priorities taking me there. But I really am glad that there are people out there who do that. Makes me feel better when I get long lens happy on my CL 😉 (since that Canon 135/3.5 & it's external VF is an even _worse_ fit on it... 😱 )
William
clarence
ダメ
Good point about the external viewfinder, William. I have no idea how much a conversion might cost, but the Hologon itself would already set you back quite a bit I think.
Clarence
Clarence
Bailey
Established
Wow. The only other lenses I've been thinking about getting are a superwide (maybe a cv 15) and something nice and flat for easy carrying. That would solve both those needs. Too bad it would cost more than double what I've spent on my entire outfit.
Sure would be nice on my CL though...
Sure would be nice on my CL though...
Bailey
Established
Not that I'm actually entertaining the idea of getting one of those, but hypothetically, wouldn't the rear element on that thing be a problem on the CL? It looks like it extends pretty far back in the photos I'm looking at. This person seems to have dealt with it, but I wonder if the swinging meter arm in their camera still works.
And how hard is it too find an adapter for contax lenses?
And how hard is it too find an adapter for contax lenses?
Xmas
Veteran
You can alter M adopters to stop the cells that swing into place swinging. (file metal from a lug) the rear may still block the CLE's and Mx dot(s) on the blind style systems view of the blind. It does block the internal meter on the Contax Gs.
The lens comes as a native Contax G lens and needs surgery to fit a LTM mount. A Contax II or IIa adopter would not leave an infinity focus?
Mine was about 800 £ August 05 remaindered, as a part of the Gs are no longer made syndrome, probably prices will climb.
But a VC 12mm or 15mm may be easier (£) than the LTM surgery, unless you are a stickler for the distorsion... is there detectable distorsion with a CV?
Noel
The lens comes as a native Contax G lens and needs surgery to fit a LTM mount. A Contax II or IIa adopter would not leave an infinity focus?
Mine was about 800 £ August 05 remaindered, as a part of the Gs are no longer made syndrome, probably prices will climb.
But a VC 12mm or 15mm may be easier (£) than the LTM surgery, unless you are a stickler for the distorsion... is there detectable distorsion with a CV?
Noel
Captain
Well-known
Sorry but I dont see how the mount which also detemines framelines has any direct connection to the swing arm meter of the CL?
fgianni
Trainee Amateur
If anyone is interested a converted Hologon16 is now on ebay for £1,346.00 (Item number 280030627711)
Or you could go for the Hologon 15 for only £4374 (Item no. 280030627271)
Of course if you are broke like me you can get a CV lens.
Or you could go for the Hologon 15 for only £4374 (Item no. 280030627271)
Of course if you are broke like me you can get a CV lens.
Xmas
Veteran
Captain
I did not mean to be too abstract, the M mount has four lugs, one was used for the viewfinder selection, from M3 days.
When Leitz did the M5 they had two work arounds for the swinging cell..
a) you fitted thick sticky tape to your collapisibles, correct depth.
b) you sent in your 28mm and 21mm ( I cannot recall about the origional 3 element Hologons...) leitz then ground a large part off one of the other lugs so that the origional 21 and 28 could be mounted, the missing lug parts swung in the meter. Then they reworked the 28mm almost immediately so that it was a reverse telephoto, and could be used normally on a M5, the CL has a slightly different set of rules for the pressure sensitive tape. My memory is not good from '73-'74 so you need the documentation if you want to file your self
Noel
I did not mean to be too abstract, the M mount has four lugs, one was used for the viewfinder selection, from M3 days.
When Leitz did the M5 they had two work arounds for the swinging cell..
a) you fitted thick sticky tape to your collapisibles, correct depth.
b) you sent in your 28mm and 21mm ( I cannot recall about the origional 3 element Hologons...) leitz then ground a large part off one of the other lugs so that the origional 21 and 28 could be mounted, the missing lug parts swung in the meter. Then they reworked the 28mm almost immediately so that it was a reverse telephoto, and could be used normally on a M5, the CL has a slightly different set of rules for the pressure sensitive tape. My memory is not good from '73-'74 so you need the documentation if you want to file your self
Noel
Captain
Well-known
Sorry but you still have me baffled. No part of the lens mount on any of the 4 lugs intrudes into the camera beyond the 5mm mark where it clips into the camera mount. Only the rear elements of these lenses intrude deeply into the camera body and come close to the swinging meter cell. The modification Leica did to early 28's and 21's was to reduce or replace the mounting ring of the very rear element to give greater clearence which is totay independant of the 4 lug mount.
The Hologon couldnt be adapted at all because it was the actual glass not just the mountting ring of that glass that protruded deep enough to touch the swing arm meters. Attached is a photo of the rear of the 15mm Hologon as you can see the 4 lug mount does not protrude into the body much at all compared to the rear elements.
If I have totally misread what you have written I do apologise though.
The Hologon couldnt be adapted at all because it was the actual glass not just the mountting ring of that glass that protruded deep enough to touch the swing arm meters. Attached is a photo of the rear of the 15mm Hologon as you can see the 4 lug mount does not protrude into the body much at all compared to the rear elements.
If I have totally misread what you have written I do apologise though.
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Xmas
Veteran
So sorry when you are dyslexic things are different.
The M3 and later Leits cameras but not the CVs have a lug sensor for the viewfinder frame, if you open the back and set the shutter on B you can see this operate as you mount a lens.
The M5 (and the CL as well I think) have an additional lug sensor on one of the other lugs (and I'll post a dig picure tomorrow) which inhibits the cell swinging in and leaves it in the shutter is opening, open or closing position.
The early 21mm and 28mm lens before a serial number (i'll post tomorrow) will destroy the M5 unless they were sent to leitz first. Leitz removed the mount ground it and replaced. If you operate a M5 you need to know this...
I'm wrong so frequently you do need to query dont worry...
Do you have a M H15 or modified G H16?
Noel
The M3 and later Leits cameras but not the CVs have a lug sensor for the viewfinder frame, if you open the back and set the shutter on B you can see this operate as you mount a lens.
The M5 (and the CL as well I think) have an additional lug sensor on one of the other lugs (and I'll post a dig picure tomorrow) which inhibits the cell swinging in and leaves it in the shutter is opening, open or closing position.
The early 21mm and 28mm lens before a serial number (i'll post tomorrow) will destroy the M5 unless they were sent to leitz first. Leitz removed the mount ground it and replaced. If you operate a M5 you need to know this...
I'm wrong so frequently you do need to query dont worry...
Do you have a M H15 or modified G H16?
Noel
Xmas
Veteran
Captain
Please see the Leica Way; Matheson; Tenth edt. '72; page 102 which says:
'Certain lenses whose rear part extends more then about 1/2 inch into the camera body... Such lenses can be used on the M5 only if the mechanism raising the meter cell is disengaged. This is done by modifying the bayonet lens mount to clear the coupling pin inside the camera mount which acts on the raising mechanism of the cell. ... and is necessary for the Super-Angulon (both the current and the earlier version) and for earlier 28mm Elmarit of serial number below 2314921.'
Pic of Elmarit 21978xx after modification and J12 on a Leitz unmodified M ring. You should just be able to see the bit removed, from the Elmarit's mount and intact on the J12. I don't have a M5 or CL so don't need the adopter ground down. I think from memory Leitz ground lens mounts for free, if they were being serviced. The Hologon and CL was after '72 and all my Leitz documentation from '74 which addresses both (this lens and body) is packed away after a house move, in one of the crates. My memory from '74, on such archena, is a bit hazy, but a H15 would have been baselined with the reduced mount, and no TTL metering, ditto an H16 adopted to LTM would need a reduced M adopter.
Note other lenses need adoption for similar reasons, e.g. collapsibles and DR cron! I think you only get damage with a collapsible, but I'd not risk an unmodified lens, if I had a nice M5. At the very least the cell will hit the side of the lens barrel after an exposure, the J12 in pic would also be a problem.
Nopel
Please see the Leica Way; Matheson; Tenth edt. '72; page 102 which says:
'Certain lenses whose rear part extends more then about 1/2 inch into the camera body... Such lenses can be used on the M5 only if the mechanism raising the meter cell is disengaged. This is done by modifying the bayonet lens mount to clear the coupling pin inside the camera mount which acts on the raising mechanism of the cell. ... and is necessary for the Super-Angulon (both the current and the earlier version) and for earlier 28mm Elmarit of serial number below 2314921.'
Pic of Elmarit 21978xx after modification and J12 on a Leitz unmodified M ring. You should just be able to see the bit removed, from the Elmarit's mount and intact on the J12. I don't have a M5 or CL so don't need the adopter ground down. I think from memory Leitz ground lens mounts for free, if they were being serviced. The Hologon and CL was after '72 and all my Leitz documentation from '74 which addresses both (this lens and body) is packed away after a house move, in one of the crates. My memory from '74, on such archena, is a bit hazy, but a H15 would have been baselined with the reduced mount, and no TTL metering, ditto an H16 adopted to LTM would need a reduced M adopter.
Note other lenses need adoption for similar reasons, e.g. collapsibles and DR cron! I think you only get damage with a collapsible, but I'd not risk an unmodified lens, if I had a nice M5. At the very least the cell will hit the side of the lens barrel after an exposure, the J12 in pic would also be a problem.
Nopel
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