rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Hi Andy,
in general, I pretty much agree with you. Basically, you're saying that the 1D and M8 on one hand and the D200 on the other are in different classes. Then again, this is kind of obvious, since one only has to look at the price sheet. At the danger of turning this into the digital equivalent of the usual Bessa R2 vs. Leica M6 discussion, however, I'd still like to comment on some of the technical details that you highlighted:
Granted, but there's not exactly an astronomical difference between 28 or 31mm FOV (from a 21mm lens), or between 67 or 75 (from 50).
Note that you need to enter data on the Nikon only if you want matrix metering (as opposed to "plain" metering) and automatic flash reflector selection based on focal length. Again, apples and oranges; you'll have to do the same on the M8 if you want to automatically select flash reflectors or have the focal length in your EXIF data with an uncoded lens; something like matrix metering is unlikely to be available and/or necessary in the M8; and it's not clear yet whether the M8 will support manual entry at all, even though we'll know that in two weeks or so. Note also that you can have matrix metering chips installed in older pre-AI Nikon lenses (admittedly not in all) for less money than Leica charges for "coding" lenses.
Philipp
in general, I pretty much agree with you. Basically, you're saying that the 1D and M8 on one hand and the D200 on the other are in different classes. Then again, this is kind of obvious, since one only has to look at the price sheet. At the danger of turning this into the digital equivalent of the usual Bessa R2 vs. Leica M6 discussion, however, I'd still like to comment on some of the technical details that you highlighted:
AndyPiper said:
Granted, but there's not exactly an astronomical difference between 28 or 31mm FOV (from a 21mm lens), or between 67 or 75 (from 50).
AndyPiper said:
Note that you need to enter data on the Nikon only if you want matrix metering (as opposed to "plain" metering) and automatic flash reflector selection based on focal length. Again, apples and oranges; you'll have to do the same on the M8 if you want to automatically select flash reflectors or have the focal length in your EXIF data with an uncoded lens; something like matrix metering is unlikely to be available and/or necessary in the M8; and it's not clear yet whether the M8 will support manual entry at all, even though we'll know that in two weeks or so. Note also that you can have matrix metering chips installed in older pre-AI Nikon lenses (admittedly not in all) for less money than Leica charges for "coding" lenses.
Now one's favourite flavour of memory card form factor is really quite on par with one's favourite flavour of ice cream...AndyPiper said:
...but if that is what deters you from a camera, a compact SD-CF adapter costs about $30 and converts a CF into a SD slot (http://www.compactflash-adapter.com/index.php?lang=en; there's at least another one marketed by Jobo as well).
Philipp
AndyPiper
Established
Philipp: Fair enough - we're probably comparing apple ice cream to orange sherbet.
My concern with CF cards is that they are the one media that can actually cause substantial and costly damage to the camera itself (by bending or breaking one of the 50 pins that must feed into the card when it's inserted)**.
If that adapter can be "permanently" left in a camera with only the SD card being removed and inserted, that solves my problem (and opens up a whole range of camera possibilities). However, it looks as though one would have to remove the CF adapter from the camera to grip the SD card and pull it out - and in that case I'd still have the problem of constant insertion and removal of the CF adapter's 50 pins.
I'll study it further. Thanks again.
**I'm sure someone will pop up and testify that they have used CF cards for years and never damaged a camera. Quite possible. But there are dozens of posts around on the web to the effect of - "Aaack! My CF card bent a pin in my camera and Nikon (Canon, Olympus) wants $200 and a month for the repair" - or - "Step-by-step instructions for straightening bent CF contacts with a loupe and a jeweler's screwdriver". Since I've used 3 CF cards to test various cameras and two of them have had catastrophic failures of one kind or another in a very short time - CF is a road down which I will not go.
My concern with CF cards is that they are the one media that can actually cause substantial and costly damage to the camera itself (by bending or breaking one of the 50 pins that must feed into the card when it's inserted)**.
If that adapter can be "permanently" left in a camera with only the SD card being removed and inserted, that solves my problem (and opens up a whole range of camera possibilities). However, it looks as though one would have to remove the CF adapter from the camera to grip the SD card and pull it out - and in that case I'd still have the problem of constant insertion and removal of the CF adapter's 50 pins.
I'll study it further. Thanks again.
**I'm sure someone will pop up and testify that they have used CF cards for years and never damaged a camera. Quite possible. But there are dozens of posts around on the web to the effect of - "Aaack! My CF card bent a pin in my camera and Nikon (Canon, Olympus) wants $200 and a month for the repair" - or - "Step-by-step instructions for straightening bent CF contacts with a loupe and a jeweler's screwdriver". Since I've used 3 CF cards to test various cameras and two of them have had catastrophic failures of one kind or another in a very short time - CF is a road down which I will not go.
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AndyPiper
Established
And thanks for the clarification of D200 metering - matrix isn't critical for me...
Anyway - back to the obsolete M8....this is supposed to be the RANGEFINDER forum!
Anyway - back to the obsolete M8....this is supposed to be the RANGEFINDER forum!
Mark Norton
Well-known
If freeloader "glasgowdave" can buy a Leica using his business development grant, I want one as well! Dave, you seem to me to be just one of those ex-service types with a huge chip on your shoulder who thinks the world owes them a living.
Stop spongeing off society and get a proper job!
Oh, you can moan all you like about how Leica M8s aren't worth it and how they will be obsolete, blah, blah, blah, blah but I'm not interested. I'm buying two, out of taxed income, and I don't need a Government handout to do it. I hope your grant application fails.
Stop spongeing off society and get a proper job!
Oh, you can moan all you like about how Leica M8s aren't worth it and how they will be obsolete, blah, blah, blah, blah but I'm not interested. I'm buying two, out of taxed income, and I don't need a Government handout to do it. I hope your grant application fails.
Bob Ross
Well-known
And, up pops MeAndyPiper said:
.....never a problem in 4.5 yrs and I use a card reader, too. I do have to agree that the SD contact design is more robust. There may be dozens of bent pin reports, but out of the millions of CF equiped cameras, that ain't too shaby. I do tend to buy the best "pro" class cards figuring that the QC might be better, since the mfrs wouldn't want the pros all over them like a flock of banded cults....
Bob
glasgowdave
Newbie
Mark, having paid above the average rate of national insurance throughout my service career due to the expected early retirement age of 40 or so, and taking some rather severe risks for the privilege, I resent your whining remarks about "another ex serviceman". I'd love to hear you explain your unfounded remarks in person, although something tells me you'd decline the chance to do so.
If you want to consider every person in the UK who founds a new business with the help of the business gateway service a "freeloader", you do thousands of people a real disservice. In addition, I presently earn a very nice salary (taxed at 40% I might add) in a consultancy role which utilises the experience I gained while defending your right to post purile, weak and frankly resentful posts on camera websites in the armed forces. I have chosed to take the plunge into some freelance work on the side, and a Leica would be quite useful for some of the candid work I enjoy. I've also recently undertaken a commission for an advertising agency based in the west of Scotland. While in New York for a mate's wedding in November I'll be adding to my stock collection.
Have a great day being miserable, you certainly sound a well balanced individual...with large chips on both shoulders!
If you want to consider every person in the UK who founds a new business with the help of the business gateway service a "freeloader", you do thousands of people a real disservice. In addition, I presently earn a very nice salary (taxed at 40% I might add) in a consultancy role which utilises the experience I gained while defending your right to post purile, weak and frankly resentful posts on camera websites in the armed forces. I have chosed to take the plunge into some freelance work on the side, and a Leica would be quite useful for some of the candid work I enjoy. I've also recently undertaken a commission for an advertising agency based in the west of Scotland. While in New York for a mate's wedding in November I'll be adding to my stock collection.
Have a great day being miserable, you certainly sound a well balanced individual...with large chips on both shoulders!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
:angel: Peace guys:angel: . Dave, Mark is a nice guy, you probably caught him on the wrong foot, dropped a brick where it shouldn't go or whatever. Happens to us all.
Sparrow
Veteran
Mark Norton said:
Even if true not really good form, luckily Dave seems able to defend himself
glasgowdave
Newbie
Sparrow, certainly not true, certainly very poor form, and I certainly can defend myself....and by the way my grant was approved.