CLE Service Manual

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Imagesfromobjects

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Hey Guys!!

Long-time lurker, first time posting here.

I've recently purchased a Minolta CLE. AMAZING camera. Super happy with it. Got it for a very reasonable price because it had - according to the seller - issues with metering in A mode.... yadda yadda, yes I've done my homework so I knew what I was getting into. Upon putting some fresh silver oxide batteries in it seems more or less ok, but I'm used to shooting in manual without a meter, so that's what I'm doing anyway. 3 rolls in and all seems well with shutter speeds, so I think we're good. Fingers crossed.

The vertical rangefinder is ever-so-slightly off. Probably I can just live with it, because otherwise focus is spot on. HOWEVER, in trawling the interwebz for repair prospects should anything short of a catastrophic circuit board failure befall my new beloved, said prospects were BLEAK.

Even posts dating back to 2006 said hardly anyone was willing to work on them anymore. Anyone who asked about a service manual was given the "I have it, but it's copyrighted" answer.

So my question, then. On this day, in 2019, when the CLE has LONG been out of production, and Minolta (and Konica Minolta for that matter) is effectively nonexistent, and as the handful of repair folks who once worked on these cameras gradually retire... what happens?

If any document were a candidate for the Fair Use clause in Copyright, the CLE Service Manual makes a pretty solid case. It would be difficult to conceive of any harm being done in sharing it, and it seems more than a little sad to think of this camera going the way of the dinosaurs if the DIY community can't at least get a crack at saving it.

So, then. Enough rambling.

Does.... anybody have one? I haven't seen any show up on that Online Auction site, so I figured I'd try here

Thanks for reading.

-T
 
No problem, thanks for replying and thank you for the link. I'll hve to enlist a French-speaking pal if it comes to that, but that looks very helpful.

The trouble seems to be that there is info out there (a lot of it on this site) but it's scattered through various places and none of it is really complete.

I will gladly scan the manual and post it au gratis if I ever come across one.
 
Given that to my knowledge I am the only one that has stated on the forum they are in possession of a CLE manual many years ago I can only assume this general ramble as you put it about the matter is mainly directed at myself from previous posts. Given its only a first post and can appreciated your frustration I will try not take it to heart. Its a bit misleading to state that anyone that has asked has been met with the "Copyright answer" given that it was asked once many years ago and that was the answer I gave one person one time and it was generally accepted as a legitimate concern and not mentioned again. Ironically in answering here again does effectively become that I guess.

The current copyright holder would be the Sony Corporation unless they have otherwise onsold it to another party. Without doing any research I am confident that they are well versed in their intellectual property rights should they choose to exercise it. "Limited Use or Fair Use" Provisions certainly only covers limited and partial reproduction for education purposes not reproduction in its entirety and then further widespread dissemination of the whole document through digital media and is expressly prohibited by any interpretation of fair use laws. You have even mentioned your intent to do just that for free if you ever obtained a copy. I suspect that goodwill would then end up as a saleable CD rom on auction sites exploiting that which you had given away previously. That would leave a trail any copyright lawyer could easily track back to the original source. Even though the manual cost me a great deal of money (more than a CLE itself) I have made posts to help others within "Fair use" provisions. Once such post was directly related to the issue you were having regarding vertical rangefinder adjustment and a diagram from the manual was shown as the two adjustments for the rangefinder use completely different methods to achieve. Ever since the Rangefinder forum was created, I and a couple of other dedicated CLE users like Doug, have tried over the years to help whenever we can. The reward is limited and the thanks quite scarce. The internet doesn't often tolerate others concerns behind faceless and impersonal bodies of text if they get in the way of what they desire, and often expecting it for free. We do get embolden in what we expect for free on the net these days. In the case of a CLE manual it predates any digital media and its a large 150 page brick of paper. The time needed to covert it and collate it properly into a acceptable digital format would take a lot of time and effort on top of the expense of the manual itself with the only reward to curtail criticisms that it should be made available to people you have never met for free. They would probably garner more thanks from the others they simply pass it along too with a few seconds effort than was ever given to the person who took all the time and expense needed to originally create it.

I like to hope that people have appreciated my help on the CL/CLE forum over these many years but there are some limits I have where I believe it may put me at risk (no matter how remote others may perceive that to be) and I hope others can respect that limit. A complete reproduction of a copyrighted document that is valid for 70 years and then have that them widely distributed through websites and social media with those very actions referred to in the Copyright act as illegal paints a target on me personally no matter how remote the risk of that may be now due to the content and age of the material. In a litigious society even the right to sing "Happy Birthday"has reached the courts. Add to the reality is that I couldn't see myself with the ability and time to covert the thing even to photocopy it is simply beyond my expertise and available time. I hope this may put it into perspective why it is such a rare and elusive document and solicit your understanding.
 
Palaeoboy said:
Given that to my knowledge I am the only one that has stated on the forum they are in possession of a CLE manual many years ago I can only assume this general ramble as you put it about the matter is mainly directed at myself from previous posts. Given its only a first post and can appreciated your frustration I will try not take it to heart. Its a bit misleading to state that anyone that has asked has been met with the "Copyright answer" given that it was asked once many years ago and that was the answer I gave one person one time and it was generally accepted as a legitimate concern and not mentioned again. Ironically in answering here again does effectively become that I guess.

The current copyright holder would be the Sony Corporation unless they have otherwise onsold it to another party. Without doing any research I am confident that they are well versed in their intellectual property rights should they choose to exercise it. "Limited Use or Fair Use" Provisions certainly only covers limited and partial reproduction for education purposes not reproduction in its entirety and then further widespread dissemination of the whole document through digital media and is expressly prohibited by any interpretation of fair use laws. You have even mentioned your intent to do just that for free if you ever obtained a copy. I suspect that goodwill would then end up as a saleable CD rom on auction sites exploiting that which you had given away previously. That would leave a trail any copyright lawyer could easily track back to the original source. Even though the manual cost me a great deal of money (more than a CLE itself) I have made posts to help others within "Fair use" provisions. Once such post was directly related to the issue you were having regarding vertical rangefinder adjustment and a diagram from the manual was shown as the two adjustments for the rangefinder use completely different methods to achieve. Ever since the Rangefinder forum was created, I and a couple of other dedicated CLE users like Doug, have tried over the years to help whenever we can. The reward is limited and the thanks quite scarce. The internet doesn't often tolerate others concerns behind faceless and impersonal bodies of text if they get in the way of what they desire, and often expecting it for free. We do get embolden in what we expect for free on the net these days. In the case of a CLE manual it predates any digital media and its a large 150 page brick of paper. The time needed to covert it and collate it properly into a acceptable digital format would take a lot of time and effort on top of the expense of the manual itself with the only reward to curtail criticisms that it should be made available to people you have never met for free. They would probably garner more thanks from the others they simply pass it along too with a few seconds effort than was ever given to the person who took all the time and expense needed to originally create it.

I like to hope that people have appreciated my help on the CL/CLE forum over these many years but there are some limits I have where I believe it may put me at risk (no matter how remote others may perceive that to be) and I hope others can respect that limit. A complete reproduction of a copyrighted document that is valid for 70 years and then have that them widely distributed through websites and social media with those very actions referred to in the Copyright act as illegal paints a target on me personally no matter how remote the risk of that may be now due to the content and age of the material. In a litigious society even the right to sing "Happy Birthday"has reached the courts. Add to the reality is that I couldn't see myself with the ability and time to covert the thing even to photocopy it is simply beyond my expertise and available time. I hope this may put it into perspective why it is such a rare and elusive document and solicit your understanding.
Click to expand...

Hello!

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I certainly didn't mean to step on any toes, and I very much appreciate and respect your reasons even if I don't fully agree.

It would take me several hours to scan the manual on a V600. This, and the extremely unlikely risk that anyone at Sony will pursue litigation beyond a simple takedown notice (if that, even) for posting the CLE manual are worth it to me, just to have it available to the DIY public. I wouldn't ask payment or expect any special recognition.

I don't suppose the matter is up for debate, though. Like I said, I respect your views and I appreciate you taking the time to respond to a noob. No offense meant whatsoever.

I'll keep searching for one. Thanks anyway.
 
Ok, update:

I took the plunge and successfully opened the CLE sans manual and have since made some very minor adjustments based on the links above, and some good ol' trial-and-error.

**HOWEVER**

It's unclear what the two screws do - pic attached. The french site (Google translated) names the two screws as follows:

1-Horizontal adjustment screw.
2-Adjustment lock screw (?). *question mark appears in original text*

Any clues? Obviously, I'm proceeding with extreme caution and don't want to strip or put any strain on the mechanisms, so any help would be very much appreciated.

#2 turns pretty much freely, so I haven't messed with #2. I'm actually wondering if the French site got the two backwards, because #2 seems to adjust the horizontal and #1 only appears to have minor influence on anything. I'm unclear if you are just supposed to loosen the lock screw, then adjust, then tighten it back? Or what....

I used scotch tape as ground glass and a measuring tape at various distances to discern that the lens' distance scale is reasonably accurate. I did the same with two lenses, Ultron 28/2 and Nokton Classic 40/1.4. Both appear to be spot on from .8m to infinity, as per the tape experiment.

I aligned the horizontal as best I could at infinity and didn't mess with the vertical wheel at all. The vertical is fixed in place by some sort of green waxy adhesive. Will try to do that on the next go, because it's off and mildly annoying.

All seem to be well for now - attached pics are wide open at close-ish range, which is my primary interest. Most of my shooting is available light, candid kid events and some street stuff, so wide open accuracy is a must. Seems ok for now?

Any info on the two screws and the adhesive for the vertical wheel would help. Thanks for reading!

-Tim
 

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I will contact Sony Corporation to obtain a license for the manual and will depending upon their response make it available. Thanks for the French posting...my only question is about those two screws listed as associated with the meter....do they control the release of the curtains...timing? If I had a parts camera I would just try out moving them. A point of interest. Do not forget that for the higher speeds using an old cathode ray tube tv can be an excellent way to determine whether the curtains are operating properly particularly at the higher speeds...1/1000, 500 and 250. There is plenty on the web to explain what you see and I use this method to adjust. Typically I compare to the view I get on an Olympus OM2 or a Nikon and you can find out a lot with unsophisticated tools.
 
I know this thread is over a year old but... did anyone end up having any luck with contacting Sony Corporation/obtaining any info about where the manual can be retrieved?
 
Very different cameras, I'm afraid.

I still want to know how to cure those dreaded jumping LEDs once and for all. Any instructions about what exactly I should be cleaning under the shutter speed dial will be most welcome!
 
Crystal Camera Repair repaired my in a couple of weeks for a about $150. Unless you have a catastrophic circuit board (I actually have never heard of anyone having one) the repair is something any competent camera shop should be able to do. Don't understand why people think that a camera repair person is only trained to work on one camera model his entire career. These are nice cameras. If a trained specialist can't repair it why do you think you can?


http://crystalcamera.com/contact_us.html
 
KoNickon said:
Very different cameras, I'm afraid.

I still want to know how to cure those dreaded jumping LEDs once and for all. Any instructions about what exactly I should be cleaning under the shutter speed dial will be most welcome!
Click to expand...

The CLE that I purchased last year wasn't metering correctly upon arrival. initially I was getting some of the jumping LED effect. I took the camera apart using this article as a reference. That got me to the point where I could remove the shutter speed dial along with the shutter button, the spring (keep an eye on this) and the film speed control mechanism. Underneath all of that I found a copper "spider" (for lack of a better description).

Without a manual I just assumed this might be serving as an electrical contact so I lightly rubbed it down using a clean eraser. After putting everything back together the camera metering worked flawlessly. Whether or not the end result specifically had anything to do with my cleaning attempt or if by my taking the camera partially apart and putting it back together did the trick remains to be seen. Either way, the CLE seems to be happy and so am I.
 
Beemermark said:
Crystal Camera Repair repaired my in a couple of weeks for a about $150. Unless you have a catastrophic circuit board (I actually have never heard of anyone having one) the repair is something any competent camera shop should be able to do. Don't understand why people think that a camera repair person is only trained to work on one camera model his entire career. These are nice cameras. If a trained specialist can't repair it why do you think you can?

http://crystalcamera.com/contact_us.html
Click to expand...

This is good to know.. I've just read some many threads online where many people claim that the camera is as good as a paperweight if it fails and no one is willing to repair it anymore. This puts me more at ease.
 
Guth hits the point with many electronic camera innards, especially it seems Minolta. Internal contacts become slightly oxidized and need cleaning. The cameras are still basically mechanical cameras so they need to be CLA.

Interesting fact is a number of Leica designs were Minolta's but Leica (for reasons unknown) used their own design and have a very high failure rate (even 30 years ago when they were newer.).

I've had 3 CLE's, two bought cheap because they didn't work. The internet myth has existed that CLE are failure prone and unfixable was invented along with the 300 baud modem. My only issue with the CLE is there is no way to lock a meter reading in and you often need to get a good meter reading, then switch to manual to take the shot.
 
Hey all, I just wanted to bump this thread and see if there is anyone around who either A) wants to share the Minolta CLE service manual in its entirety, or B) can lend some insight into the electronics of the camera. I've run into the seemingly common issue where the auto exposure keeps the shutter open for much longer than it should. I tried cleaning the contact under the speed selector dial and the problem went away for a few weeks and then came back, which makes me think that oxidation isn't the only factor here. The meter circuit is pretty easy to access and fairly simple, which makes me think that this would be a simple issue to debug if I had access to any authoritative documentation on the electronics—circuit diagrams and such.
 
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