cooltouch
Established
I haven't attempted to dismantle anything yet, but I've removed the lenses from folders before, so I know pretty well what's involved in that.
My Retina IIc's shutter is timing out about twice the normal length of time on the slow speeds -- and for all I know, the fast ones as well. I have a couple of questions about this: 1) what exactly is going on that causes the shutter's times to slow down like this, and 2) I'm wondering if I remove the shutter assembly and just dunk the entire business in naphtha, and let it soak for a while, then let it thoroughly dry, will this be sufficient to speed things up?
I've dismantled a Synchro Compur shutter once before, following a very detailed set of instructions I found on flickr for the very same shutter and was less than pleased with the results after I finished reassembling it. I had cleaned all the parts in naphtha and reassembled it dry (I think) and its behavior was worse than it was when I dismantled it. The slow speeds had become slower and erratic. I tossed it in a box, discouraged, and haven't really done anything else with it since. I guess I should try again, maybe the second time will be better. Nevertheless, I would rather avoid this same situation entirely with this Retina IIc. If dunking the shutter doesn't improve things, I guess I'll just take it in for a CLA.
My Retina IIc's shutter is timing out about twice the normal length of time on the slow speeds -- and for all I know, the fast ones as well. I have a couple of questions about this: 1) what exactly is going on that causes the shutter's times to slow down like this, and 2) I'm wondering if I remove the shutter assembly and just dunk the entire business in naphtha, and let it soak for a while, then let it thoroughly dry, will this be sufficient to speed things up?
I've dismantled a Synchro Compur shutter once before, following a very detailed set of instructions I found on flickr for the very same shutter and was less than pleased with the results after I finished reassembling it. I had cleaned all the parts in naphtha and reassembled it dry (I think) and its behavior was worse than it was when I dismantled it. The slow speeds had become slower and erratic. I tossed it in a box, discouraged, and haven't really done anything else with it since. I guess I should try again, maybe the second time will be better. Nevertheless, I would rather avoid this same situation entirely with this Retina IIc. If dunking the shutter doesn't improve things, I guess I'll just take it in for a CLA.
colyn
ישו משיח
When dunking the entire shutter you wash all lube off which needs to be replaced with new but knowing just what does get lube is the catch. If you lube the wrong part or get too much it can bleed to the shutter blades which will then lock up the shutter so I would suggest you send it out for service. Chris has a how to on the Retina IIa shutter but it is different from the IIc shutter.
Re your first attempt. It sounds likely that you did not get the shutter as clean as you might have hoped and maybe a lack lubrication was an issue. I know there are a lot of people who claim that their leaf shutters run dry very happily, but Synchro Compurs do need lubrication to run at their best. They may well run OK dry but they do not like it, it will accelerate wear by a factor of about 80%, and the manufacturers have detailed and extensive precise instructions about lubrication needs. You do not have to take my word for it: the repair manual is readily available in CD form online.
If the current camera is running slow it's likely that cleaning is needed. Escapements stall or run slow when old, dirty and dried out lube are present. Shutter blades will not glide smoothly when there is a film of residue on their surfaces. The Synchro Compur is a very reliable shutter and very well made. However every decade or so they do need some TLC to keep them running sweetly. Chris Sherlock in Dunedin is a Retina specialist, if you want to farm the job out he has an excellent reputation for making the Kodaks run very well.
Cheers
Brett
If the current camera is running slow it's likely that cleaning is needed. Escapements stall or run slow when old, dirty and dried out lube are present. Shutter blades will not glide smoothly when there is a film of residue on their surfaces. The Synchro Compur is a very reliable shutter and very well made. However every decade or so they do need some TLC to keep them running sweetly. Chris Sherlock in Dunedin is a Retina specialist, if you want to farm the job out he has an excellent reputation for making the Kodaks run very well.
Cheers
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
The shutter is dirty and gummed up. That's what causes the problem.
Soaking it won't help. I will demonstrate what a heretic I can be and make arecommendation. Open the front of the shutter. Depending on the style of the Synchro-Compur you have, it might be easy to get the cocking ring out. WIpe down the inner circle of this part with naphtha. Now take a #000 paint brush or other small controlled way to apply liquid, and put naphtha on the pivot points of the slow speed esacepment. Also a few drops around other obvious pivots. Do this three or four times over a couple of hours, a day, or so. Operate the shutter between applications. Small drops. I use an architect's drafting pen myself.
If you have a very light oil, put a bit on each pivot point, again small very small drops. Then take off what you can with a cotton swab (don't leave cotton fibers inside). Also put oil on the inside edge of the cocking ring and wipe it off as well as you can. Now reassemble.
I've done this with a few Synchro-Compurs on Rolleiflexes and they have had no problems for years. Then again, some have started dragging again within days or weeks. It can be worth trying.
cooltouch
Established
Thanks for the responses, guys. What you wrote makes sense. Unfortunately, the guide I had to work with for the assembly/reassembly of the Synchro Compur I worked on before didn't go into such detail regarding lubricating. I think I can get ahold of the guy who provided the pics at Flickr and ask him his recommendations. But, based on what I've read from other sources, this is probably something that a pro should handle. Apparently shutters like the synchro compur require as many as five different kinds of lubricants. Me, I can come up with three maybe -- a very light machine oil that I use for most camera repairs, motor oil (usually 10w30), and lithium grease. Oh, and I have some 90w gear lube. But somehow I don't think that any of these, with the possible exception of the light machine oil, have any business in a shutter.
As for this little Retina, it's in such pristine condition that I don't know if I should even try to mess with it. It appears that Chris Sherlock is The Man when it comes to Retina repairs. Unfortunately for me, he's on the other side of the world from my location. There is a professional camera repair shop locally to me that may be able to do the CLA I'll need. They've been around a long time and they pretty much can do it all. If not them, then I think I should be able to find someone else stateside who is still doing this sort of thing.
As for this little Retina, it's in such pristine condition that I don't know if I should even try to mess with it. It appears that Chris Sherlock is The Man when it comes to Retina repairs. Unfortunately for me, he's on the other side of the world from my location. There is a professional camera repair shop locally to me that may be able to do the CLA I'll need. They've been around a long time and they pretty much can do it all. If not them, then I think I should be able to find someone else stateside who is still doing this sort of thing.
colyn
ישו משיח
You should never use lithium grease on cameras since it will outgas and eventually damage the glass surfaces facing the shutter. Moly is the grease you should use. Check out the lubes at micro-tools..
cooltouch
Established
Thanks for the micro-tools tip. I'll check them out. Actually I forgot to mention, I do have a tub of molybdenum disulfide grease, which I've used for years to relube focusing helicals with. A little bit goes a long way.
farlymac
PF McFarland
I like to use SuperLube (a synthetic) on the Synchro-Compur. It's guaranteed not to run, and has a wide temperature range. Micro-Tools carries it, but I found my local hardware store does too. I've also used it on the focus helical.
I've identified a couple of points in the Synchro-Compur that are critical for lube, one being the detent spring for the shutter blade ring (in the center of the photo)
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P1080443_2 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
The other place is the levers under the Drive Gear (sorry, don't have a decent photo of that).
It doesn't take much SuperLube to do the job, my tube will likely still be mostly full when I'm long gone.
PF
I've identified a couple of points in the Synchro-Compur that are critical for lube, one being the detent spring for the shutter blade ring (in the center of the photo)
P1080443_2 by P F McFarland, on Flickr
The other place is the levers under the Drive Gear (sorry, don't have a decent photo of that).
It doesn't take much SuperLube to do the job, my tube will likely still be mostly full when I'm long gone.
PF