cleaning a Summar

[FrankS]

I'll be receiving a Summar lens described as having some haze. If it is bad, I'm thinking of having a go at cleaning it myself if it is not too difficult and I if I can find some help here at RFF. Has anyone here been into a Summar? Is it difficult? Can all the surfaces be reached?

 

[back alley]

frank, i'd like to offer you the benefit of all my expertise in cleaning leica lenses...



...that is, if i had any!

😉

 

[JimG]

I'll be receiving a Summar lens described as having some haze. If it is bad, I'm thinking of having a go at cleaning it myself if it is not too difficult and I if I can find some help here at RFF. Has anyone here been into a Summar? Is it difficult? Can all the surfaces be reached?

I have Summar that needs cleaning too. Were you able to get a info. from anywhere? JimG

 

[thafred]

I have only opened the summar up to the point were I would need a special tool. All lthe dust and dirt was between those Elements so I didn´t care to open the rest of the lens. No need for a screwdriver up to this point!

Did you get your Summar, Frank?

 

[nrb]

I've got a similar problem, albeit with a 2.8/50 mm Leitz Elmar.
Perhaps someone in this learned forum knows how to open up this lens...

 

[doubs43]

I have only opened the summar up to the point were I would need a special tool.

Your pictures are interesting. I have three Summars and none have the screws in the aperture scale ring that your pictures show. There are also other differences between the three examples I have. The Summar obviously went through some modifications during it's years of production.

Walker

 

[Kin Lau]

On my Summar, there's a set screw near the front element. After you undo that, the entire front section comes off for cleaning. That was enough for me.

On my 35mm & 50mm Elmars, there's also a set screw in the front (35mm) or barrel (50mm). Undo that, and you can just unscrew the front cells with a bit of friction. My 50/3.5 is in _very_ tight tho, so I've never been able to get the front cells out for a cleaning.

 

[JimG]

"On my Summar, there's a set screw near the front element." Kin Lau

My Summer has two set screws one on each side of the aperture adjustment. They don't come out all the way. I unscrewed them as far as they would come out but the front element did not come off. I think these screws are for setting the aperture adjustment to the aperture indicator line. Are these the screws your talking about Kin?

 

[doubs43]

My Summer has two set screws one on each side of the aperture adjustment. They don't come out all the way. I unscrewed them as far as they would come out but the front element did not come off. I think these screws are for setting the aperture adjustment to the aperture indicator line. Are these the screws your talking about Kin?

Jim, as you've noted, those screws are for the aperture iris adjustment. If you remove them fully, you can then turn the aperture ring but the blades will not move.

Once removed, you'll see that the screw has threads only on the back end while the shaft in front is smooth. Look into the hole and you'll see nothing until you move the aperture ring. Then you'll see the smooth surface of the diaphram cam. When in place, the screws move the cams as the ring is turned.

If you have a stiff aperture ring, I've found that once you've positioned the hole over the cam, a small, single drop of naptha (alcohol should work too) in each hole followed by moving the ring back and forth will smooth things right out...... until the naptha evaporates. It'll still be smoother but will also stiffen back up some. I then use a toothpick to place a small amount of high temperature wheel bearing grease in each hole and again rotate the ring. As I rotate it, I stop to push the grease down again and again. I DO NOT add more! Soon, the ring should move as smoothly as it did when new. Re-position the holes where they were when you removed them, and put the screws back in.

I've "fixed" at least three lenses exactly that way.

Walker

 

[Kin Lau]

Okay.. I have it in front of me now. There's no set screw at all, I had it confused with the Serenar.

All you have to do, is grab the entire front section in front of the aperture ring, and just start unscrewing. It's that simple.

 

[JimG]

Well that was interesting. This was the 1st Leitz lens that I have purchased and at least I learned allot for my $25. One thing I learned is these lenses are not all built the same way as indicated by the different info. shared here, thank you guys. I had to remove 3 screws mid barrel (see arrow in attachment) to expose all the glass. There was a kind of gasket inside that was mostly dust when I removed the different parts. I see why the photos from this lens are so soft, the rear element is opaque with haze along the outside of the glass (see attach.)

Can anyone tell me if there is anyway to clean off the haze? And will the lens function without the gasket or what ever it was. I think it might have been used to keep the barrel stiff when folded out?

 

[doubs43]

There was a kind of gasket inside that was mostly dust when I removed the different parts. I see why the photos from this lens are so soft, the rear element is opaque with haze along the outside of the glass (see attach.)

Can anyone tell me if there is anyway to clean off the haze? And will the lens function without the gasket or what ever it was. I think it might have been used to keep the barrel stiff when folded out?

Jim, the rear lens group is a cemented doublet in front and a single element in the rear. The doublet will unscrew and allow you to clean all the surfaces. I use Q-Tips and non-streak Windex or the equivalent. The haze may take numerous treatments to remove it all.

I can think of two possibilities for the "dust". If it's inside of the barrel between the rear group and the iris, my guess is that it's paint flakes. The sides of the doublet should be painted and over time it flakes or peels off. My Serenar paint came off in a complete circle, wandering freely around inside the lens as it was tilted. I just bought a 1939 Summitar that had a strip of paint hanging inside. I got it cheaply and it took me less than an hour to have it re-painted and back in perfect shape. Look at the sides of the rear group sticking above the sleeve. All of the sides up to the concave part should be painted black. I use Testors Flat Black Model Paint.

If the "dust" is on the outside of the barrel, it's likely the felt baffle that lines the inside of the mount/focus mechanism. I repaired one Summitar using 1mm self-adhesive felt from Jon Goodman's seal kit. I cut it to width with a rotary paper trimmer. Clean the old felt out and remove any old adhesive using denatured alcohol or naptha. The new felt will readily stick to the clean surface. It does help to keep the lens barrel tight in the track.

Let me know what you find.

Walker

 

[JimG]

Walker, yes it is felt and I have left over seals from Jon's kits. Also the paint is chiping same as my 9cm Elmar was. I will keep working on it, maybe I can get cleared up the way the Elmar did. Thanks' for your advise. JimG

 

[John Shriver]

Here's a link to the cut-away Summar Westlicht Auction sold in May 2005:

http://www.westlicht-auction.com/files/bf964b2bb7da2f1ebb5219d63477f505

Note that all groups are peened into their respective metal mounts.

The rear element is held by a retaining ring -- a spanner will remove it. But first you have to remove the one setscrew that holds the bayonet lock ring and unscrew it.

The rear block is held by the three setscrews in the barrel, but it is also a very tight fit.

The setscrew in the front dress ring holds the front element screwed into the front block. Nothing but friction holds the screw threads tight holding in the front block. This is what you have to remove to clean/lube the aperture mechanism.

I had to replace all the black paint. The inside of the inner groups was dirty. The aperture actuating mechanism needed cleaning.

If you need to re-cement either of the groups, you're in a pickle. You have to first machine them out of their mount, because of the peening. Probably not practical.

I cannot stress enough the necessity of using the VERY BEST form in cleaning the glass in this lens. Many of the elements are very soft flint glass, especially the front one. Incredibly easy to scratch. (Only thing softer is Leica's first generation coatings.) The lightest of pressure, with lens tissue damp with lens cleaner (Kodak or ROR).

 

[winoto]

hello all. just disassembled and cleaned my newly acquired summar that came with my IIIc. however, i think i was too keen while cleaning the rear of the second glass element. the black ?lacquer surrounding came off. will i now have some uncontrollable flares? what effect does this have? should i repaint it on? i would appreciate any input. thanks