maggieo
More Deadly
I've found that below 40mm or so, coding is a very good thing, especially if you want to avoid having to use CornerFix. Here's a CV 28mm, uncoded and then coded:
GrahamWelland
Well-known
Snow, fog or cloud really show up the color vignette ... CornerFix works well if you don't mind the post-processing. Arguably it's better than Leica's implementation because you can tune it and the profiles are based on the characteristics of YOUR lenses and not a generic for the lens type.
willie_901
Veteran
Vegitation and IR
Vegitation and IR
Doug
When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?
Willie
Vegitation and IR
Doug said:I suspect the importance of IR filters and lens coding depends on the use... Wedding & fashion photography obviously require this, but for landscapes or other uses in which black fabrics aren't an important element, then maybe it isn't necessary. Learn to love the occasional bit of magenta?
Doug
When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?
Willie
I don't know, Willie... are vegitation colors off?willie_901 said:
GrahamWelland
Well-known
Doug said:
I'm not Willie but the answer is yes, vegetation does take on a hue without the IR filter and it's a great reason for filters on all lenses.
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
IR Filter and process
IR Filter and process
When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?
Willie
Although the M8 has no IR blocking filter it is not sensitive to the IR range the human eye cannot see 700-1700 nanometers (approx.) without an IR filter on the front of the lens. These filters are what renders the white you see from chlorophyl in the plants. Don't confuse an IR filter with an IR cut filter, one allows the sensor to see IR spectrum the other blocks it. Attached is an example of a B&W IR shot with the M8 and a Hoya IR72 filter on the front of a Canon 55 mm F1.2 FE lens converted to M.
IR Filter and process
When I view photographers' portfolios of IR film photos, I notice vegetation often gives a strong IR response. Why wouldn't the greens in vegetation be in error in landscape color photos from a M8 without IR filters on its lenses?
Willie
Although the M8 has no IR blocking filter it is not sensitive to the IR range the human eye cannot see 700-1700 nanometers (approx.) without an IR filter on the front of the lens. These filters are what renders the white you see from chlorophyl in the plants. Don't confuse an IR filter with an IR cut filter, one allows the sensor to see IR spectrum the other blocks it. Attached is an example of a B&W IR shot with the M8 and a Hoya IR72 filter on the front of a Canon 55 mm F1.2 FE lens converted to M.
Attachments
Ben Z
Veteran
GrahamWelland said:
I concur. Most of my shooting is outdoors, in fact I rarely shoot "black synthetic fabrics". The effects of the M8's IR sensitivity is much more rampant and widespread than "occasionally with black synthetic fabrics" and maybe it's time Leica stopped trying to downplay it.
sleeek
Member
Ben Z said:
I still haven't bought an IR filter and I shoot with the M8 every day. The magenta cast only happens every once in a while when there is synthetics in the shot. I want to get a filter, but don't want it to change the look of the image if I decide to go black and white. http://www.p45plus.typepad.com
Ben Z
Veteran
sleeek said:
I agree that magenta only happens to black fabrics. I have travel pictures of cars with magenta convertible tops. But I also have pictures, made when I was hoping not to have to use IR filters all the time, of bright green palm fronds which the M8 rendered a sickly pinkish-purple. Also dark green foliage which the M8 rendered a light greenish-yellow. The magenta convertible tops, and clothing, are relatively easy to correct (magnetic lasso in CS2 and then desaturate) compared to the foliage. Those shots were trashed. It may have something to do with the quality of sunlight, as well as the IR reflection characteristics of the subject, which would account for why some people shoot outdoors without filters and claim they've never seen a color perverted.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
No they don't, and the are a bit p***** **f with it.bottley1 said:
willie_901
Veteran
Doug,
Like many rangefinder camera users, I was excited about the M8. About 12-14 months ago, before most M8 owners were using IR filters, I viewed numerous M8 images from a variety of sources. To my eye, the color in general looked off in many of those photos. This subjective impression is consistent with published empirical data (see below). When IR filter usage became more common, I noticed the M8 color images I viewed seemed more normal to my eye.
So, yes, I thought there was a problem with IR contamination in general that went beyond the black/magenta issue.
Ever since, I've been puzzled that no one mentioned/discussed that green color fidelity could be a problem as well (especially in landscapes where IR reflectance from direct sunlight should be high).
Luminous Landscape's early M8 review (http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-m8.shtml)
published color gamut comparisons (figs. 1 &2) where the greens (and of course the reds) had an unusually spiky response. This type of response is consistent with IR contamination. Some early reviews seemed to simply miss this fact. Others intentionally ignored it because the reviewer(s) earnestly believed Leica would address the problem before the production cameras were released.
I have to conclude from the anecdotal responses in this thread and from the data published by LL, that a M8 without IR filters can also produce erroneous greens when a significant amount IR light is present.
For color work filters and coded lenses (for wide angle lenses only) seem mandatory.
But then I believe RAW is mandatory for digital photography with any camera, and millions of people are very pleased with their jpeg images.
willie
Like many rangefinder camera users, I was excited about the M8. About 12-14 months ago, before most M8 owners were using IR filters, I viewed numerous M8 images from a variety of sources. To my eye, the color in general looked off in many of those photos. This subjective impression is consistent with published empirical data (see below). When IR filter usage became more common, I noticed the M8 color images I viewed seemed more normal to my eye.
So, yes, I thought there was a problem with IR contamination in general that went beyond the black/magenta issue.
Ever since, I've been puzzled that no one mentioned/discussed that green color fidelity could be a problem as well (especially in landscapes where IR reflectance from direct sunlight should be high).
Luminous Landscape's early M8 review (http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-m8.shtml)
published color gamut comparisons (figs. 1 &2) where the greens (and of course the reds) had an unusually spiky response. This type of response is consistent with IR contamination. Some early reviews seemed to simply miss this fact. Others intentionally ignored it because the reviewer(s) earnestly believed Leica would address the problem before the production cameras were released.
I have to conclude from the anecdotal responses in this thread and from the data published by LL, that a M8 without IR filters can also produce erroneous greens when a significant amount IR light is present.
For color work filters and coded lenses (for wide angle lenses only) seem mandatory.
But then I believe RAW is mandatory for digital photography with any camera, and millions of people are very pleased with their jpeg images.
willie
ChipNovaMac
Established
I will add that in my limited tests, I will support (at least with my lenses) what Sean Reid mentions in his reviews - that wider than 35mm coding is needed. So far in my limited shooting with the CV lenses using the LTM8 adapter the results have been better coded than uncoded (15, 21, and 28). I have given up on my 35mm for use on my M6TTL. Otherwise my 50 and 90 do well uncoded so far.
Interesting, and a bit discouraging... thanks!willie_901 said: