Cold Weather and the Leica M Shutter

[Aaron Hellman]

With the approaching arrival of winter on the East Coast, I am curious if a drop in temperature affects the operation of the shutter on my M2. I could imagine that the springs and lubricants slow down, which might then cause the shutter to be slower than normal. Is that right? If so, does it make sense to adjust either the aperture or shutter speed to counteract the change in the shutter operation?

Are there any other winter-related issues I should be aware of when using my Leica in cold weather? Condensation on the film? Lens issues?

As always, thank you for your help.

 

[David Hughes]

Actually, you send them back to Leica and they re-lubricate it for Arctic conditions... Well, they used to but these days, who knows?

Regards, David

 

[Livesteamer]

I have used Leica M and screw mount for almost thirty years now and the only time I had trouble with cold was with an elderly IIIc that was past due for a service. I had it out in the cold of an Ohio winter for about an hour and some of the frames showed that the shutter was capping. I had it serviced and no problems since then. I suspect you will be fine unless you plan to spend a lot of time in extreme cold. You can always keep it inside your coat. Joe

 

[ForestCap]

It will be good news if both shutter curtains are slowed down by the same rate. The thing is in cold weather it will likely get uneven exposure, eg. with one side or the frame darker than the other side. You won't know if it would happen unless you try it in cold weather, because a camera with leica style shutter would produce perfect exposure during summer but uneven ones in cold, if the lubrication is not optimal.

It's is not just springs and lubricants that got slowed down. The rubberised curtains also get "lazy", imagine wearing rubberised waders in frozen weather. Later Canon RF started to use metal curtains to improve this. And they somehow bragged about it in the user manual saying metal curtain makes the camera more "all weather".

I try to avoid using cameras with such focal plane shutters in environment coder than -5 Celsius, but the more modern version of the shutter like the ones in Pentax MX has not shown problems in my experience.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

It was -28C I went on Redeu Channel in Ottawa to skate. On second hour film in M4-2 broke.
M4-2 was on me all the time and it worked.
Watch for condencat then in and out. I use large ziplock bag,

 

[presspass]

Reading David Douglas Duncan's book on the Korean War, I saw he said his cameras worked through some very bitter weather. He noted that the film became brittle and broke but the cameras - both LTM Leicas - worked well. I have shot with M series Leicas in snow and cold and never had a problem, but if it's been a while - say more than 20 years - since your M2 was serviced, you could run into issues.

 

[Rob-F]

I try to avoid using cameras with such focal plane shutters in environment coder than -5 Celsius, but the more modern version of the shutter like the ones in Pentax MX has not shown problems in my experience.

I try to avoid using cameras at all in environment colder than 40F! (Therefore No problems with my Leicas!)

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

If you like to shoot with no people in the frame, come to Texas. Below 40f everything is deserted, no one goes out, the weatherman calls it an "Arctic blast".

 

[ktmrider]

Temperatures you will encounter on the East Coast don't count for needing to relubricate the shutter. Now if you were in Fairbanks, Ak and it was 40 degrees below zero you might want different oils.

Keep the camera inside your jacket when not shooting, advance the film slowly so it does not break or you do not get static electricity marks and enjoy the winter sports. One of the advantages of classic cameras without the battery is they are not affected much by the cold one encounters south of the Arctic or below the summit of Everest.

 

[Huss]

Actually, you send them back to Leica and they re-lubricate it for Arctic conditions... Well, they used to but these days, who knows?

Regards, David

Yep, send it to Leica NJ for relubrication service. You'll get it back by next summer, if you're lucky, when it wont be needed.
😀

 

[rfaspen]

Trust me. Leave your camera out (around your neck on strap?) for 20 mins in -45F and it will slow down. How do I know??? In fact, I would worry about metal parts breaking at that temp and lower. I once had a car key shattered in two in -45F when I dropped it on the sidewalk.

Keep your camera under your coat and only bring out for shots, and you can spend many hours in -45F weather. Well, actually, I doubt you will want to spend too many hours in -45F. Its pretty cold.

FWIW, My old Zorki-C did fine in -10F to 10F conditions without much concern for how long it was "exposed". Film does get brittle. Breaks easily. Digital konks out pretty quick due to battery. I had an Olympus EP-2 that stopped working in about 0F, even though I mostly kept it under my coat. I did bring it out a bunch of times though...

A friend who used to live near Whitehorse would always tease me that -45F is nothing compared to -56F. Apparently that extra 10 degrees of cooling makes a huge difference.

 

[ktmrider]

Where on the East Coast of the US does it reach -45 degrees F? Those temperatures are rare even in Siberia or interior Alaska.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Used to service German made Arriflex motion picture cameras, especially the Arriflex 16S, which was made at the same time as the original Leica M cameras (1952-1969). ARRI made special cold weather lube we used in them for when shooting outside and the temperature below 20ºF. Always wondered if they had cold weather lube over there at the Leica factory as well.

Haven't yet had issues with my Leica M or Barnack cameras in the cold, but did have a Nikon S2 give me trouble when it got below freezing. Had DAG service it, and it's much better now. Still wouldn't trust it below 20ºF though.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I’ve used Leica M cameras winter and summer in the Canadian Rockies, Alps, on Denali and in the Himalayas for 40 yrs. Never had any problems and never had them ‘Arctic’ serviced. Three of the Alaska Range climbing trips I used Leica CLs. The only precaution I used was to wind each consecutive frame slowly when the temps were low.

 

[lxmike]

Living and shooting around Northumberland and Scotland l have experienced some very cold temps, my leicas do not usually have any issues with the cold

 

[Mark J]

I used my M's in -30 with some modifications. I sent them to Marty Forscher in the 70's and he removed the lubricants. New lubricants work well at -20f without major issues. Leave the camera outside when coming in to prevent condensation. Broke film at -20f and used my coat as a changing bag to remove the film. Reloaded and continued shooting. Wear gloves to avoid frostbite on the fingers.

 

[David Hughes]

FWIW, when I come in from the extreme cold I usually stick things like cameras, binoculars and mobile phones into a sealable freezer bag and leave them to warm up slowly indoors.


Regards, David

 

[ForestCap]

Where on the East Coast of the US does it reach -45 degrees F? Those temperatures are rare even in Siberia or interior Alaska.

I was like: Ok maybe -45F is like -20C, then I google converted it and asked myself the same question.

My hometown gets free supply of siberian cold currents every winter and it rarely gets lower than -35C/-31F in the coldest days in winter.

Here is a Creative Commons image of how the winter in my hometown looks like:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Harbin_Ice_Festival.jpg/800px-Harbin_Ice_Festival.jpg


I've used a Yashica Electro 35 on one of such nights and it survived. The batteries died halfway.

 

[mod2001]

In case you want see whats really cold: https://www.lensculture.com/articles/alex-vasyliev-my-dear-yakutia No idea which camere he used, but couldn't stop to smile when I read this desription for one of his photos:

Once it gets warmer, for example -35°C, people go outside for walks with their family to squares..

And yes, Celsius not Fahrenheit 😱

Juergen

 

[Papercut]

Once it gets warmer, for example -35°C, people go outside for walks with their family to squares..

And yes, Celsius not Fahrenheit 😱

Juergen

You do realize that -35F is actually colder than -35C (-35F = -37C; -35C = -31F), right? Once you hit -45, the situation is reversed (-45F = -43C; -45C = -49F). People who grew up in the metric world frequently underestimate the negative side of the Fahrenheit scale and how cold it is. Those extra 32 degrees before the numbers go negative are tricky.